Treble side scale length opinions

[ogon]

Hi everyone I'm looking to get into 8 string but have no experience with longer scale lengths (or multiscale, or extra strings). Looking for opinions from more experienced people on what scale length starts to make the high strings sound/feel bad. I noticed the Strandberg 8's are 26.5 on the treble side and I know a lot of people like them (and a lot of people don't but not usually for scale length reasons as far as I've seen).

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find any stores in my city where I can try out 8 strings but obviously trying things out in person would be the best. Still working on how I can get my hands on some relevant guitars to try. Suppose I can go try some baritones to at least get some impression of longer scale if not the extra strings and multiscale side of things.

Anyway thanks for your input - any opinions are much appreciated.

 

[ixlramp]

27" is 1 fret added to 25.5". So on a 25.5" guitar if you tune a high string up a semitone that is approximately equiavalent. Then you can see if your preferred gauge then feels too tight, and if so you can try out a smaller gauge.

 

[Masoo2]

I like the spacing of 26.5 and as long as you compensate with string gauges (ie if you normally run 10s try a 9.5) I find it plays pretty similarly to 25.5. It's really nice on the higher frets to get that slight extra room granted by the scale increase.

27 inches wasn't that much worse when I switched down to 9s but any longer and I wouldn't have been too comfortable with it. I don't think I'd be comfortable with a 28+ inch scale length for the treble side unless it was on a straight scale guitar I setup for stupid low tuning and really wouldn't be playing any lead work that would require better usability on the treble strings.

Given that you haven't had the chance to try an 8 string or multiscale, what I'll say is that in my experience the parallel/neutral fret placement (where the fret is completely straight across the fingerboard) is the most important factor in determining playability/comfort. Everything else for the most part can be at least somewhat compensated by changing string gauges, but the parallel fret is ingrained into the instrument.

Some people like the parallel fret around the 11-13th fret such as the Ibanez fanned fret 7/8s, others like myself prefer it around the 8-10th fret which is found on Strandberg and Legator 7/8s, some prefer no neutral fret for adapting straight scale floating trems to multiscale fretboards like the Ormsby Genesis, where as some like the first fret to be the neutral fret for locking nut adaptation like as seen on the 2021 Dean fanned fret models.

Neutral fret placement determines how your hand must adjust to the fan. 25.5-27 with an 8th fret parallel feels entirely different than the same 25.5-27 fan but with a 12th fret parallel. A lower parallel fret placement with result in a softer fan near the headstock, allowing for easier chord work and less strain when reaching across to the 6/7/8th strings in those first few frets. It has the inverse effect on the higher frets, whose slant can become annoying when trying to reach across to the 6/7/8th strings higher up on the fretboard. The opposite occurs when moving the parallel fret placement higher towards the 12th fret or going extreme like the Ormsby Genesis which uses the bridge as the parallel.

That's just my opinion though. Like obviously yeah scale length makes a difference, especially on the low end rather than high end (I don't think I'll go shorter than 28 inches anymore), but parallel fret placement makes or breaks a multiscale guitar. The first time I tried a multiscale was one of the Ibanez with the 12th fret parallel and it cramped up my left hand. Now I own one with a 8/9th fret parallel and it's so much more comfortable for my hands.

 

[ogon]

Thanks to both of you who have replied so far. Very helpful. Isn't there also the issue of harmonicity/inharmonicity? Is that not as much of an issue for the treble strings as it is for the bass strings? Would a longer scale length make the treble strings unacceptably inharmonic at a certain point regardless of if you could get the tension right via gauges?

 

[InfinityCollision]

Longer scale lengths let you use thinner strings (which are more flexible and string-like, less so like a rigid & inharmonic bar) for the same tension, so you'd have less inharmonicity. Treble string inharmonicity is generally negligible for electrics as is though. Even the wound strings it's not too much of an issue unless you're trying to play significantly below E standard, and even then how much it matters depends on what you want to do (single notes, double stops, full chords?) and how you go about it.

 

[jephjacques]

Anything under 27" is perfectly comfy in my experience. Just be careful stretching new strings if you run a .9 set on a 27". I've snapped a couple being too aggressive with breaking them in.

 

[bostjan]

Bass string inharmonicity is 100-1000 times more than trebles strings, so I don't think it's really an issue.

If you get too long, IMO, things start to sound "thinner" on the high notes. It seems barely noticeable between 24.75" and 25.5" scale, but I think I can hear a difference. It's just more brightness, really, but that's typically less desirable on high notes than low notes.

Than you run into problems with strings breaking once you get past 28" or so for E4. If you tune down, you can go longer. If you want to tune up to F or F# or G or G# or A, then you have to either compromise more on length or get special strings. I'm tuning up to A at 24" and have no problems, but I have other factors in my favour: straight string path, low friction nut and saddle, etc.

Almost everything is boiling down to personal preference, unless you are going really crazy, so it's hard to tell you what you'll like or dislike. Me- I tend to go for as much scale length as I can get, since it's easy to tame brightness with EQ, but you can't aadd it in if your natural tone is muddy. My main sevens are 27" straight and 26-28" multiscale. I have other guitars with longer scale lengths, though, including a six that's 29.75". I wouldn't want to go more than about 28.6" on the high E myself, mainly for the feeling of the string pressing into your finger. You could be more or less extreme than me.

 

[ixlramp]

Isn't there also the issue of harmonicity/inharmonicity? Is that not as much of an issue for the treble strings as it is for the bass strings?

Generally yes, but ...
For the high strings, excessive inharmonicity can be a problem for the thickest plain steel string, it starts to get increasingly stiff and therefore increasingly inharmonic as you increase above .016.
One advantage of a longer scale is that it allows that plain steel to be reduced in gauge.
I find a .016 noticeably more flexible and has noticeably better tone than a .017.

Would a longer scale length make the treble strings unacceptably inharmonic

Heh ... there is no such thing as "unacceptably inharmonic" =) Lack of inharmonicity results in clarity. For example a .008 or .009 is extremely harmonic, and sounds good.

 

[G_3_3_k_]

@ogon I would very much recommend finding a multiscale to play. It doesn’t agree with everyone. I love them. Where the parallel fret is really is important. A really aggressive fan can be pretty physically demanding. How you move across the strings changes as well. As you move from low string to high string, your hand has to shift forward as well as down. That was the weirdest part of the transition for me.

As stated, anything 27” or shorter on the high E is fine. My Oni is running a .009 on 26.75”. Feels great. There is more treble on the high strings, but you can EQ that out. I bounce between a Fender scale 6 tuned 1/2 step down and my Oni, so I find a happy median and go with it. I don’t have any issues with the transition back and forth at all. But that comes from playing them both a lot.

 

[ixlramp]

Would a longer scale length make the treble strings unacceptably inharmonic

My reply:

Heh ... there is no such thing as "unacceptably inharmonic" =)

Sorry, i got confused here, "Unacceptably inharmonic" is of course possible.

You implied that a longer scale would increase inharmonicity, it actually does the opposite (this is partly why i got confused).
A longer string of the same gauge is more flexible, because its width relative to its length decreases.
However, a longer scale usually results in using a smaller gauge to create your preferred tension. A smaller gauge is more flexible.
So a longer scale increases flexibility, and therefore reduces inharmonicity, in 2 ways: the string is longer but also thinner.