Triple Rectifier tone and gain problem

[Stench of Necropsy]

Hi, all!

I need some advice about getting more saturation and low end from my Triple Rectifier.
The manual says to keep the gain knob in the middle range because if it is maxed it can cause noise and microphonic problems in the preamp tubes. And, in fact, I need to change them.

So, I'm thinking the problem is that I'm not playing loud enough. I'm mostly maxing out the gain on the preamp and keeping the the power section very low. I think I need an attenuator so I can turn up the amp a bit because, in any case, tube amps sound better when played fairly cranked.

Otherwise, I don't know what could be wrong. My signal chain is EMG 81 bridge > Maxon OD808 (level max, drive 0, tone at noon) > Channel 3 Modern, all tone knobs flat, gain maxed, Bold and Diode settings at the back. If it makes any difference, the cab is a Mesa 4x12 Traditional with Vintage 30s. Thanks and hope to hear from you!

 

[Ænima]

trade it for a multi-watt rectifier

and neeeeever play with your gain dimed, that just silly,

 

[jc986]

Saturation and low end should not be something difficult to achieve from a Triple Rectifier.

What volume do you typically use?

How old are the tubes?

 

[Shask]

Dead battery on your EMG?

On my Triple I will run the maxon the same, and the gain around 2 oclock. That is a crazy amount of gain. I cant imagine the boost+gain at max. You might need new preamp tubes.

The bass will come with volume. The amp gets massive sounding once you get the volume up a bit. At whisper volume it is not as big or bassy sounding.

 

[MrPowers]

Like the others said, how old are the tubes? And what do you mean by tone knobs flat? do you mean pointing straight up? or turned off? What type of sound are you going for?

The other guitarist in my band plays a Triple Rec which we are currently recording, he is boosting his with a TS9 and we run the gain at about 2...

Assuming the tubes are good, try swapping a Seymour Duncan Blackout AHB1 in for that EMG. The Mesa Triple Rec produces more low end than just about any other guitar amp out there, so if you're not getting enough low end either the tubes are dead, or something else in your chain is letting you down.

I've got a lot more suggestions for other things to try in your chain, but it would help to know what sound you're going for first. And again, the others are right, Triple Recs really need to be cranked to sound their best.

 

[DavidLopezJr]

First off Mesa is always great with customer service. Feel free to ask them.

With that said I have a Mesa Mini Recto and it seems Rectos in general you need to really balance the Gain and Volume knob so that it opens up well. An attenuator is a great option for getting it more open at lesser decibels.

Check out the Rivera Rockcrusher without EQ for a well priced one.

 

[TheWarAgainstTime]

Sounds like the power tubes could be old if you aren't gwtting much low end thump. I used to have a Triple Rectifier and it was a challenge to get RID of excess low end I'd also swap the pickup battery and check the pedal power supply just to be sure.

Try putting the gain on the 808 around 9:00, tone around 1:00, and level dimed. On the amp, put the gain around 1:30, highs at 9:00, mids around 1:00, lows between noon and 1:00, presence to taste, and channel volume between 10:00 and 11:00. This will open up the preamp section to feed the power section with a clearer/thumpier signal rather than a fizzy/compressed/gained out signal.

 

[Dabo Fett]

I use a two notes torpedo reload as a load box with my dual rectifier, and while it helps, rectos are not meant to be quiet amps. Tone will come at volume, and you'll find that you won't need as much gain the louder you go. Mesas and specifically the rectifier get their heaviness from their tone more so than their gain I believe

 

[Stench of Necropsy]

AEnigma: The Triple Rectifier is multi-watt. It has a 50W option. I hope I understood what you meant.
Playing with the gain dimed silly... well, I guess to each his own. The tone gets saturated and thick at about 2/3 o'clock. Maxed (at around 5:30) the tone stays more or less the same as at the 2/3 o'clock position so I could try and refrain from maxing it out, I guess.

jc986: I don't play very loud. I guess not at bedroom levels but neither at rehearsal or gig levels.
This amp was bought new so the tubes were new, I assume. I'm changing the preamp tubes because I've been playing it for around a year now and they developed some noise problems due to me playing with the gain maxed.

MrPowers: Yes, eq flat. Tone knobs facing straight up, not at zero. TS-9... I see. I believe that could be more powerful than the Maxon OD808 I use. Maxon, in fact, have issued an OD808-X version designed more for Metal players 'cause it pushes the preamp tubes harder for more gain and bottom end.
That makes me wonder... wouldn't that harm the tubes just as turning up the gain on the amp itself? Hmmm....
Thanks for the Seymour Duncan Blackout suggestion! I could give it a try eventually, if I don't manage to find any settings on the amp that I like. The tone I'm going for is a fully saturated tone, that's all. EQ basically flat. I'm not asking for much, I guess lol.

Hey, guys! Btw! Any Mesa amp owners here? My amp makes a loud, annoying pop when switching channels or changing wattage (150W to 50W for bedroom practice). It did it from day one that I bought it and I Googled this and found that it's apparently a common issue on Mesa amps!

TheWarAgainstTime: Thank you for the settings suggestion! I'll definitely try them out!

Thanks again all of you! I had to buy 2 attenuators because the Triple Rec. is rated at 150W and I couldn't find any attenuators that would let me turn up the volume without risking frying the attenuator.
So now I can connect one attenuator to each of my two cabs and that should let me turn up the master volume to around half or more without risking frying the attenuators (and even worse, causing damage to the amp).

 

[lemeker]

The pop when changing channels is common, happens on mine, and isnt anything to really worry about. If it bothers ya that much, just swich channels before you take it off standby.

I would suggest checking all sources of power, and tubes.

I run channel 2: pres 4 oclock,master 11 oclock, gain 1 oclock, bass 7 oclock, mids 5 o clock, treble 1 oclock. I leave the loop engaged at all times and use the output as my master volume. My send knob on back is set to normal and mix to 100 percent. Ive started to run a boost(delta labs to1) gain is 8 oclock, tone is 11 oclock, and level 1 oclock.

I can go from bedroom levels to really fookin loud, and it sounds tit's either way.

 

[protest]

I don't play very loud. I guess not at bedroom levels but neither at rehearsal or gig levels.

This amp was bought new so the tubes were new, I assume. I'm changing the preamp tubes because I've been playing it for around a year now and they developed some noise problems due to me playing with the gain maxed.

I had a Roadster for about 7 months or so, and I fought with it a lot. I tried different boosts, EQ's, preamp tubes, changing the settings, but really the biggest thing was volume. Like you I didn't play at bedroom volumes, but I also didn't crank it up that often. When I did push the volume up it was a completely different amp. Just a huge, tight sound that was really crushing. I think that one of your problems is probably just volume.

There's definitely some other issues as well though, and changing out preamp tubes isn't a bad idea. If you have a loss of gain chances are it's a preamp tube.

 

[MrPowers]

I'd say go ahead and change the tubes out and then report back to us on whether or not it helps.
As far as brands go, I highly recommend a Tung-Sol 12AX7 in the input stage. That tube has gone in that slot on every amp I've had and it has been a massive improvement on all of them. Obviously this is personal preference, but it would definitely be worth trying. As far as the rest of the preamp goes, JJ's are always a good choice, or more Tung-Sol's. It's really just up to your tastes.

Edit: And obviously replacing them with Mesa brand tubes would also be a good idea if you wanted to go that route.

And if you had a couple of bands in mind that you liked the sound of, that might help us get a little closer as well. If ALL you want is fully saturated, it might be easier to find a different head. Saturated isn't really how I would describe the mesa's I've used. They can do it, but 5150's, 6505's, and Engl's do it much better in my opinion.

 

[DavidLopezJr]

Hey, guys! Btw! Any Mesa amp owners here? My amp makes a loud, annoying pop when switching channels or changing wattage (150W to 50W for bedroom practice). It did it from day one that I bought it and I Googled this and found that it's apparently a common issue on Mesa amps!

Thanks again all of you! I had to buy 2 attenuators because the Triple Rec. is rated at 150W and I couldn't find any attenuators that would let me turn up the volume without risking frying the attenuator.
So now I can connect one attenuator to each of my two cabs and that should let me turn up the master volume to around half or more without risking frying the attenuators (and even worse, causing damage to the amp).

The wattage pop isnt an issue, its how the design works based on there being a voltage change I believe. If you have one channel on 50w and switch to another with 150w, a pop will also occur based on a voltage change. Best way to really get around it is to deal with it or to stick to one wattage. I havent heard complaints from guys who gig them so the pop must not be too bad.

Regarding the attenuators and wattage. I personally would just put the amp on 50w because I'll rather not risk overheating the attenuator but you can still use it on 150w mode just not cranked since you'll only be sending 100watts to the attenuator at a certain point on the volume knob.

 

[vm27]

Two attenuators? Wow. Never thought you could do that. Anyway, that's probably why you're not getting enough saturation or bass response since attenuators are known for tone sucking. I'm probably wrong but you want to check if that's your problem. I know I am getting enough bass response and saturation with my triple rect at bedroom levels with stock pickups and not using boost. Bass and presence knob never went past 12noon, gain levels at 2. Sound quality maybe good at best but sounds way better than my line6 practice amp.

 

[cGoEcYk]

You might just need to open up the volume a bit. My Tremoverb sounds like fizz until you reach a magic point around 9:00 on the master where it suddenly gets evil.

 

[Stench of Necropsy]

lemeker: Thanks. I'm guessing the popping when changing channels on Mesas could be due to the multi-watt settings the player chooses. For example, when going from one channel set at say 150W to an other set at 50W. Maybe the Celestion speakers react that way.
I'm not sure but for other big brands like Marshall, their amps don't have multi-watt settings like Mesa. I find it very useful myself.

So you leave the loop on all the time, huh? I think mine is disengaged at the moment. I was guessing that the less circuitry involved, the better the tone. If I remember well, I had compared tones with the loop on and off and liked the tone better with the loop off.
Of course, tone is also subjective!

MrPowers: Yes, I read that amps like Peavey's 5150, 6505, ENGL have more preamp tubes which, generally, means more gain stages (more saturation).

DavidLopezJr: Absolutely! lemeker mentioned that wattage thing. And I think playing on the 50W setting instead of the 150W is both easier on the amp and the attenuators as well as making it easier to achieve an overdriven tone.

vm27: Yeah, I had to get two attenuators 'cause the Triple Rectifier is rated at 150W. Luckily, it also has a 50W setting which I later realized not only is more suitable for achieving an overdriven sound but also lets me use just one attenuator and one cab. Still, as you may know, Mesa make two different kinds of cabs; Traditional and Standard. Traditional have a 'frown' EQ while Standard have a 'smiley' EQ curve.
I spent all my money to get both haha.

 

[Stench of Necropsy]

So, regarding amp settings... Mesa's Rectifier series has multi-watt settings, e.g. selectable 100W or 50W settings.
I think I prefer the 50W because the poweramp tubes distort easier. I tried for a while with basically preamp saturation and clean 150W power section but ended up damaging the tubes.

Besides, in a band mix, for clean headroom there's the bass guitar.

Anyway, so besides the 50W setting, I will try and play with the 'Spongy' setting (basically a variac which lowers the overall power of the amp which produces saturation or the "brown sound").

Also, the manual suggests using tube rectification instead of diode rectification to better achieve saturation.

The 150W setting would be better suited for when playing clean for headroom. Same with the 'Bold' and 'Diode' settings. Thanks again, everyone!

 

[Given To Fly]

The 150W setting would be better suited for when playing clean for headroom. Same with the 'Bold' and 'Diode' settings. Thanks again, everyone!

Ironically, this is true, making the Triple Rectifier an excellent amp for jazz players that need clean headroom.

 

[mongey]

I had a hot plate to use with my dual for a while. I never found it super useful and sold it recently.

I never found power tube distortion sounded great with mine. Yeah they need to be working but when full on distorting it just created flub.

Not sure what your issue is. For high gain tones my gain is a hair over half and my bass is at 11 o'clock and I have tonnes of both. Keep in mind with the recto design the higher the gain the less responsive the tone controls become.

 

[SandyRavage]

I found I have to turn my gain up when my power tubes start to go on mine. Once I have to bring it to about 7-8 for similar saturated tones I usually swap tubes, and seems to correct the issue and I can run around 2-3 again.

I run a TS9 feeding into another pedal (surprisingly a run of the mill metal zone can actually be fairly nice as a clean boost), rat, hm2, and a few blackarts pedals are some of my go to. This helps as lower volume but I really don't love my tone until I can get it past 12o clock volume wise.

I'm not a huge fan of the hot plates I've used and found using an additional boost gave me a similar enough sound that it was very usable at low volumes.