True Temperament frets in EADGCF

[hodorcore]

Hey there guys

I have a question regarding the true temperament fretting system.
I have been thinking about getting a six string with true temperament frets. But since I tune in all fourths, EADGCF, I am thinking that this would negate the effect of the true temperament or maybe even make it worse.

What are your experiences with that tuning and TT frets?
Could someone maybe try it out? And what are your opinions?

Cheers and thanks a lot

Niko

maybe i dont understand the fundamental principle of true temperament frets and it doesnt even matter what tuning you use
any clues guys?

 

[Anant Naag]

I think they do it for the tuning you are going to use. You can't buy one off the shelf and have to get it done for your particular tuning.
Maybe I am wrong.

 

[Explorer]

I have been thinking about getting a six string with true temperament frets. But since I tune in all fourths, EADGCF, I am thinking that this would negate the effect of the true temperament or maybe even make it worse.

maybe i dont understand the fundamental principle of true temperament frets and it doesnt even matter what tuning you use

any clues guys?

With respect, you might be thinking that the "True Temperament" system makes intonation better across the entire fretboard in all keys when using equal temperament.

If so, you should know that the system is actually for playing in only one temperament, Thidell Formula One temperament, for a sin and in only one tuning, with target centering, tuning and string gauges chosen at the time you place your order.

The major chords which are more consonant in a particular tuning would be I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII. The more consonant minor chords would be #I, II, III, #V, VI, and VII.

If you chose G as your center, that works out to your majors being E, F#, G, A, B, C, and D, and your minors being E, F#, G#, A, B, and Eb.

Now what's interesting is, in the material I've been able to find on the "True Temperament" fret system and the Thidell temperament, the remaining dissonant chords (which are now put as far from sounding right as the "True Temperament" system has put the ones which are now sounding better) aren't really out sounding. Instead, the system supposedly makes them merely "more interesting."

W. T. F.

In other words, the imperfections of equal temperament are unbearable, but magnifying those imperfections makes them better.

Also, I believe that the new, "better" chords are limited to straight triads or fifths in most cases. No dominant seventh chords for you!

And... if you downtune a *single* string, you've now put all the pitches on that string out of the temperament on the rest of the guitar's strings. I believe also that you cannot downtune more than a half step without issues.

I'd wait until you have time to really figure out if those limits on your playing are where you want to go.

Whatever path you choose to explore, good luck!

 

[endmysuffering]

Yeah you can, you just need to order the neck specifying scale length, string gauge and tuning.

 

[hodorcore]

thanks a lot for your opinions guys! And special thanks to explorer.. that really shed some light on the matter!

other opinions are very much welcome aswell, all you TT-fretters out there?

 

[Hollowway]

With respect, you might be thinking that the "True Temperament" system makes intonation better across the entire fretboard in all keys when using equal temperament.

If so, you should know that the system is actually for playing in only one temperament, Thidell Formula One temperament, for a sin and in only one tuning, with target centering, tuning and string gauges chosen at the time you place your order.

The major chords which are more consonant in a particular tuning would be I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII. The more consonant minor chords would be #I, II, III, #V, VI, and VII.

If you chose G as your center, that works out to your majors being E, F#, G, A, B, C, and D, and your minors being E, F#, G#, A, B, and Eb.

Now what's interesting is, in the material I've been able to find on the "True Temperament" fret system and the Thidell temperament, the remaining dissonant chords (which are now put as far from sounding right as the "True Temperament" system has put the ones which are now sounding better) aren't really out sounding. Instead, the system supposedly makes them merely "more interesting."

W. T. F.

In other words, the imperfections of equal temperament are unbearable, but magnifying those imperfections makes them better.

Also, I believe that the new, "better" chords are limited to straight triads or fifths in most cases. No dominant seventh chords for you!

And... if you downtune a *single* string, you've now put all the pitches on that string out of the temperament on the rest of the guitar's strings. I believe also that you cannot downtune more than a half step without issues.

I'd wait until you have time to really figure out if those limits on your playing are where you want to go.

Whatever path you choose to explore, good luck!

Awesome! Best thing I've read in a while.

Explorer, do you know what the key center is for the Strandberg TT Singularity? I'm wondering what they chose.

 

[hodorcore]

i wrote them an e-mail, waiting for the response now!

 

[Explorer]

As far as I know, majors in Thidell Formula 1 True Temperament which are closer to just intonation are G, A, B, C, D, E, and F#, and the minors are Ab, A, B, Eb, E, and F#.

 

[ixlramp]

Might be wrong but, i thought they have 'well temperament' systems which are deliberately offset from ET (as described above, more information http://www.kylegann.com/histune.html), and more subtle systems which are for getting you closer to perfect ET.
As far as i know both are designed around a particular relative tuning and heaviness of gauges.

My opinion is the well temperamant systems are worth it if you understand and want WT.

The systems that get you closer to perfect ET are not, because perfect ET is inherently 'out of tune' anyway, and a guitar's deviations from it make it sound good.
Even with a TT system, fretting pressure, unintended bending, strength of technique will continue to make pitch deviate from perfect ET.

 

[hodorcore]

thanks ixlramp!
the main thing that bothers me is when I play chords on the higher frets and they sound out of tune even with a "perfect" intonation setup. Any fretting system that would make those chords at least a bit more pleasant would mean a lot to me.

Btw i still haven't gotten any responses from the guys that make the TT frets.. they must be pretty busy with all the TT-fret slingers out there or maybe the question is not very easy to answer but anyways..

 

[Explorer]

thanks ixlramp!
the main thing that bothers me is when I play chords on the higher frets and they sound out of tune even with a "perfect" intonation setup. Any fretting system that would make those chords at least a bit more pleasant would mean a lot to me.

If chords up the neck are out of tune while chords at the nut are in tune, you either have very loose strings, or intonation problems.

 

[GuyB]

Try, 3rds and 6ths or 10ths and 13ths.

 

[Whoman Bean]

Try, 3rds and 6ths or 10ths and 13ths.

You could just wait 2 more years, it would be 10th anniversary of this thread then