Trying a new 9-string tuning

[troyguitar]

I decided this afternoon to tune my 9-string (low to high):

B Eb G B Eb G B Eb G

As in major thirds between every string starting with a 7-string low B and ending at a G just above a regular high E.

What's even cooler? It turns out that jazz guitarist Ralph Patt has been doing this since the 60's on 7 and 8-string guitars!

The Major 3rd Tuning

Anyone know of other players using something similar? I'm curious to know what others have done with it.

 

[Waelstrum]

I dabbled with that (on a sixer) when trying to transcribe flight of the bumblebee, as it requires no position shifting for chromatics. I soon discovered that a chords were really cool, especially chords with lots of added notes became possible in root position. But I went back to all fourths because I don't play large chords that much, and it reduced my range too much, so I couldn't get the low notes of Bumblebee. then I discovered on the second page that I'd need a low B anyway and that's how I got to this forum. But I digress, with nine strings the problem of lack of range is probably not going to be an issue, and as I recall, you don't play much metal, so I'm guessing that you do play chords, so it sounds like a good idea.

 

[vansinn]

I've now browsed Patt's info and tried a major 3rd on a 6-stringer. Stick aside the lesser range; it's surely be better on 7+ strings.
Seems interesting for certain (jazzy) things, and is actually inspirational for Arab/Indian inspired scales, but I can't really get to grips with with placements and especially chords.

For metal runs, it seems notes don't fall natural; I often have to switch strings with positions falling at the same fret, which doesn't exactly speed up playing.
The best tuning I've found for solo/shredding is the all-fourth one.
Dunno.. maybe I just need more time on the major 3rd..

 

[Keytarist]

How're you going with this tuning?. I believe that with some scales you would have to change fingering positions a lot; when playing the whole tone scale, for example. The chromatic scale would be in just one position though.

I wonder how would be tuning it in perfect fifths, it would span through a lot of octaves. But you would have to stretch your fingers too much I guess.

 

[troyguitar]

The whole tone scale is super easy if you just play it 2 notes per string. If you start on say the 5th fret, it's just:

|-5-7-
|-5-7-
|-5-7-
|-5-7-
|-5-7-
|-5-7-
|-5-7-
|-5-7-
|-5-7-

I haven't had much time to play with it since I'm in final exam mode, but it is still fun so far. I'm not sure whether I like the 9-string in thirds or a regular 6-string in fifths better yet, but one of those will probably become my main tuning over the next year.

 

[ElRay]

Wow! I have company*. I've been (one of the few folks) enamored with Major 3rd tuning for a while. It's nice that it's symmetric (same chord shapes & same scale patterns everywhere), it's great if you like dense, piano-like chords and it's good for sight-reading.

It's bad if you only have a 6-string, depend on A/D drones or standard folk-chords. The other potential minus is that standard chords can be a bit cramped in 1st position.

I've played with it while I was in Afghanistan, and overall liked it a lot. It's definitely good for Blues/Jazz. I'm currently back to standard, just because I'm down to one acoustic (I sold my Dean 7-string to somebody in country on the way out); however, I'm finally starting the build I've been planning for years, so I'll either build an 8-string (C-to-E) or a 9-string (Ab-to-E).

Regarding 5ths-based tunings, there's a bunch of threads here. Distressed Romeo probably has the most experience with them. After the 8 or 9 string gets built, the acoustic goes to Fripp's NST (5ths-based). There are negatives, if you plan to play exactly what you've been playing in standard/4ths-based, or like dense chords, but if you like wide intervals, "Lifesong" Chords, or are looking for a way to force yourself into new territory, then 5ths-based is great.

Ray

P.S. Check threads pulled-up by clicking on the tags.



[action="Ray"]crosses his fingers about "vibrato bridges" and "infinite radius necks".[/action]

 

[vansinn]

Yeah, I did read the 5th threads and tried, but 5th on a non-fanned 25" is pointless - for me, that is.. I find the low strings too thick or floffy.
Sticking to the major 3rd topic.. as stated, I found it inspirational for jazz and Arab/Indian scales, so it's quite possible you're right about not trying to play my usual stuff, but let it take me in other directions.

 

[Keytarist]

I didn't realize that the whole tone scale could be that easy. I don't know why tuning on some instruments is not symmetrical. The guitar could be all 4ths, but I guess that the major third between the second and third string is to avoid the flat nine between sixth and first string on a 4ths tuning (E sixth string and F first string, being tuned E A D G C F).
The keys of the piano could be symmetrical also, like two whole tone scales: one scale on white keys + other one on black keys = 12. I like this idea, all chords and scales shapes would be identical.

 

[All_¥our_Bass]

I tune my guitar in straight fifths, but my main reasons for doing so were increased range, wider spaced chords being easier to play, and most importantly being able to have a low F and high E on a six stringer. The only other tuning I would ever consider using are straight fourths (which my bass is tuned to, plus I always hated that major third on guitars too) and stacked major thirds if I was gonna be playing very chord based music.

 

[Explorer]

Yeah, I did read the 5th threads and tried, but 5th on a non-fanned 25" is pointless.

Considering that none of my full-fifths guitars have fanned frets, not even my FM-408 (25.5") or my Agile Intrepid Pro (28.625") eight strings, I am amused that the tuning I normally use is considered pointless.

I even have a Rainsong acoustic (25.5") in full fifths.

I'd be able to appreciate the tuning not being a good fit for someone, but to say it's pointless is humorous, and seems like a lack of imagination. "If I can't make it go, then it's pointless for everyone...." *chuckle*

Regarding augmented tuning (stacked major thirds make an augmented chord), it seems interesting. I personally prefer the greater range of full fifths, but full fourths only gains a fifth in range over augmented tuning. I sometimes use full fourths for touch on the eight-strings, and the patterns are already familiar from bass and standard guitar tuning. Maybe I'll try augmented tuning as an experiment....

 

[vansinn]

Considering that none of my full-fifths guitars have fanned frets, not even my FM-408 (25.5") or my Agile Intrepid Pro (28.625") eight strings, I am amused that the tuning I normally use is considered pointless.

I even have a Rainsong acoustic (25.5") in full fifths.

I'd be able to appreciate the tuning not being a good fit for someone, but to say it's pointless is humorous, and seems like a lack of imagination. "If I can't make it go, then it's pointless for everyone...." *chuckle*

Auch! you got me there I should have elaborated on my personal reasons, as in: Yeah, I did read the 5th threads and tried, but 5th on a non-fanned 25" is pointless - for me, that is.. I find the low strings too thick or floffy.
Sorry about generalizing the matters..

 

[Explorer]

Plus one to your rep, my friend.

 

[Trespass]

I would love a nice acoustic in straight 5ths, perhaps starting with a high A440 and going down to the C. I can't imagine anything lower than a C sounding decent on a traditional scale length steel string.

Major third tuning sounds fascinating as well. I remember being linked to that (somewhere on here) years ago. What you would need is a chord book of nice voicing and ergonomic progressions. That's what I feel 5ths tuning lacks - A comprehensive volume of voicings. (If anyone can prove me wrong in anyway with tabs of NST stuff, or anything like that, please do!)

 

[All_¥our_Bass]

^Hmm... I could actually put together a big list of voicings sometime, since I've played with fifths extensively for quite awhile.

 

[troyguitar]

Major third tuning sounds fascinating as well. I remember being linked to that (somewhere on here) years ago. What you would need is a chord book of nice voicing and ergonomic progressions.

The site I linked to in the first post has a whole bunch of chords and progressions for the major thirds tuning. I plan to start playing with them more when I have time in the new year and see how I feel about it.

 

[Explorer]

I would love a nice acoustic in straight 5ths, perhaps starting with a high A440 and going down to the C. I can't imagine anything lower than a C sounding decent on a traditional scale length steel string.

...What you would need is a chord book of nice voicing and ergonomic progressions. That's what I feel 5ths tuning lacks - A comprehensive volume of voicings. quote]

There is a definite lack of premade chord books/charts for six-string, but there are tools you can make for yourself.

(Incidentally, I don't have links to what I printed out on my old computer, so obviously only those who are REALLY motivated will be able to make what I made. I'll not be making another.)

Go to one of those websites which lets you generate a fretboard with all the chord tones on it. Quite a few allow you to specify numbers of strings, as well as tuning; this is handy when working with eight-string tunings.) Turn off the fret markers and fret numbers. Set the number of frets as high as possible. Print one of each of the types of chords you'll use (both major and minor, for all dominants, major 7th, suspended, augmented, +9 and +13... whatever you will use).

Now, take another piece of paper, and cut out a slot which will expose at least 14 frets worth of any of those fretboards. This will allow you to put it atop any of those diagrams, and to move the masked sheet to show 16 frets... along with the zero fret/nut. (You'll want to know what open strings are playable notes, right?) Mark the edges of your masking sheet to show the fret numbers, along with where the nut is.

Lastly, and the weirdest part, you can cut out a little window near the nut, and hand write in what the root note is for that position of the backing sheet. That way, as you move the back sheet relative to the front, you can see the root note listed, instead of trying to figure out what the root is from looking at the fretboard.

They make these guitar slide rules, but not for fifths tuning. My own was a half-assed attempt to just get familiar with the fretboard.

The one thing which made things fall into place, at least in terms of advanced chording... was gypsy jazz mandolin.

I spent some time a while ago translating a bunch of Django chords from guitar to mandolin-family instrument. Many of Reinhardt's chords, even the ones with upper extensions, only have three notes, with the lowest note being either the root or the fifth, and the upper two being a third and seventh, or other upper extension notes.

Working these small chords allowed me to focus on just a small part of the eight-string fretboard. I eventually was able to reach further to get a root note or a fifth note which was an octave lower... meaning one or two strings over, and maybe two frets higher.

Unfortunately, the work is in a messy notebook, and I'll not be retyping it. *laugh*

Anyway, I'm sure you'll get more helpful advice, but I thought I'd share just a few things I did to make the transition to full fifths.

Good luck!

 

[ElRay]

I forgot to add this (but it is listed in the older threads): M3 Guitar -- Play jazz, pop, and rock on a 7-string electric or acoustic tuned in major thirds. Ole has a number of tabs on the site. I have some "chord book stuff", but it's not tabs, it's in 6-6 Tetragram (non)Standard Notation.

There also the Gootar chord diagram maker: Seven String Guitar Chord generator 7 string; however, since the tuning is symmetric, it's easy to move around what you get if you're playing an eight or nine string.

Ray

 

[vansinn]

Nice additions! Ole's works looks very structured. Xmas coming up, somefin to work on

 

[Ishan]

Anyone tried the NST on a 7 with a low F? I'm very interested in that as the range is in the ballpark of a 9 strings I can't get the Seven String Guitar Chord generator 7 string to work with NST, anyone can help me on that?

 

[ElRay]

I thought he had added that tuning to the drop-down because the custom setting don't work. I just dropped them a note asking to add NST+ a lower 5th (F-C-G-D-A-E-G).

Ray