Trying to actually learn guitar after playing for 15 years

[aeonrevolution]

Title says it all

I've been playing stoner rock and doomy type stuff my whole life - I'm 27 now. I've never had to learn a whole lot about my instrument past a few chunks of scales that I use to noodle around on.

I've always had people say that my playing is creative, just sloppy. I never really minded that much, but for some reason the past few months something has clicked and I've wanted to actually start being at least proficient at guitar.

Basically, I'd like some tips or full on layouts of a routine I could get myself in to practice. My favorite site I've found so far is List of exercises - Music Discipline but they really lack any form of videos. I tried understanding how to go about sweep picking and I think THIS is where I realized that I'm awful at my instrument

Anyways....thanks in advance.

 

[piggins411]

As far as cleaning up your playing goes, slowing it down and analyzing every little movement will help you see big results. It sounds like a pain but once you can pick out the small things that are making you sloppy, you can fix them

 

[innovine]

I'm in more or less the same boat... been playing the same cover songs for 15 years and am only now starting to really take a look at what I'm doing and improve as a guitarist.

Have you tried recording yourself playing along with some drums? You'll quickly hear all kinds of issues when you start listening to recordings. If you are not already doing so, playing along (slowly) to drum loops and gradually speeding up will do great things for sloppy playing. Always play along with something, even just a metronome, to keep your timing tight, and pay close attention so that each note is cleanly played, and unwanted string noise is properly muted.

If you've been noodling around for years, you're probably used to playing the same scales and licks, so push yourself to play outside your comfort zone. I almost never used my pinky for leads because it was difficult, so now I'm trying to add it to my playing. Try and find some things you've been avoiding and start working them into your practice.

 

[AndreLyles]

Believe it or not, a lot of guitarist believe that if you practice your sweep picking clean as opposed to distorted, it actually helps that way, if your technique is clean with a clean sound, it'll be very clean with a distorted sound. However, it's actually the other way around. If you really want to become good at sweep picking and want to clean up the way you're doing it, practice with distortion. We all know that with distortion, you tend to get a bit of a boost, or amplified sound, and when that happens, you have to try and cover up some of the extra noise you get. When you practice sweeping with distortion, you'll be able to hear ALL of your mistakes, and the things that you'll really have to work on. It's more important to hear your mistakes and how to correct them, than trying to just do something right. Focus on fixing the mistakes, and you'll get a lot farther in your playing.

 

[Yo_Wattup]

Record, record, record.

 

[Vrollin]

In the same boat mate, been playing on and off for years now and would love to be able to say to people I "know" how to play the guitar as opposed to I know how to play some songs....

 

[Leveebreaks]

I echo everyone above me, but as I am also in the same boat as the OP I'd also suggest learning your favourite solos too, as well as recording. It's working for me at the moment as my playing has become noticeably smoother while trying to push myself. Oh yeah ---play lighter too

 

[tyler_faith_08]

This is my post from another thread. I believe it applies here.

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I'd say that the biggest things that you can do would be these:

-learn the major scale in all the positions
-learn them in in 3-note per string groups (which is pretty similar to above)
-see how each of the positions meet up to each other
-learn how to see each of the starting points of each of these shapes within the other shapes
-memorize the above for each key
-learn to modulate. This will be pretty easy by this point, but really only if you have gotten the above down really well. If you're REALLY proficient at all of those, you can likely learn the basics of modes by sitting down with someone and talking about them for a good while.
-learn the positions in 4 note per string groups. This is very, very difficult to master. For example, if you're playing an F-lydian from the first position (4th position of the major scale moved down to and starting on the 1st fret), you'll be fretting frets 1, 3, 5, 7 on the E string and frets 3, 5, 7, and 8 on the A string. Those are some pretty freaky stretches.
-see how the 4 note per string groups merge with and move across the positions.

There are thousands of other little tricks and bits of information that are essential to achieve true mastery. Essentially, after you see how all of the shapes tie together in every direction and can jump to any position and just play rather than having to think about it beforehand, you're about 90% of the way there.

As far as technique (sweeps, string skipping, rapid chord switching {not power chords}, tapping, legato, etc.), that's up to you. Some people say that the hardest thing to do as a guitarist is to sweep. I highly disagree. I've gotten very comfortable wit my sweep abilities over the past year or so, but learning to see the fretboard as a whole is much more difficult. I've been working on that for much longer. However, learning to use each technique is much easier when you know how it fits together with other pieces, especially when you know chord theory and all of the shapes of the major scale and the intervals therein. For example, you can learn a minor sweep over 2 octaves, but learning to implement it into a song is much easier if you know all of the notes that are included in the sweep and especially all of those around it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that once you can take a key and say, "got it" and never think about whether the next note is a half or whole or minor step up and you can jump to any place you wish on the fretboard with ease, you're well over the hump. Dynamics, rhythmic considerations, intricate picking, and everything else will become much, much easier.

This isn't to say that you don't necessarily have to practice, because you absolutely do. However, during the entire time that you're learning all of these scales and positions and other stuff, you're going to play around with them and discover for yourself what you need to practice.

I guess that this will be a part 2 of this post.

As far as practicing, I like to take a variation of the Joe Satriani approach. I just play whatever comes to mind and only stop to practice something when I don't play it exactly as I hear it in my head. At that point, I'll practice something over and over until I get it perfect and then go back to playing whatever I feel like. Satch's approach is (as close as to what I can recall), "to just play and avoid repetitive scale practice because that's just asking for RSI." I somewhat disagree with this because you have to practice scales in this way to some extent. I do agree that perfecting only 10 things will not leave you as well rounded as getting fairly proficient at 100 things. Should you strive for perfection? Yes. Should you narrow your focus? Never.

You also have odd time signatures and syncopation to consider as well. Some people seemingly master rhythm in no time, whereas some people struggle. It takes time and patience for some while others just "get it". I was fortunate because I was in the "I get it" group. Learning to use varied complex rhythmic ideas is essential to having a true effective rhythm foundation. Listening to the drums in CAFO by AAL is what really got me into complex rhythm. The rhythm guitar's part isn't very complex or difficult for that matter, but the drums just have so many ideas going on at the same time while carrying such a solid rhythm. It really drove me as a guitarist to see what I could take from the drummer.

Other than these, learn to effectively analyze songs. Being able to determine time signatures and number of bars used, changes in tonal center, relations between instruments, the ABACA thingy, how each piece meshes with the lyrics, and so many other things is really good for coming up with ideas and helping you get out of a rut. I've used song analysis in the past to come up with solo ideas, ideas for time signature usage, and now I'm currently focused on key changes and progressions amongst other things.



There are so many things to consider. I'd say to watch these 3 videos if nothing else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvFK-0ifBQo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i43DIwB6Pok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI1gpDEt4Eg

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When I was practicing very heavily in my college days (sometimes as much as 80 hours a week), I was into heavier, dissonant metal. I wouldn't have played anything major because my opinion was "fairy boys play major chords". I wish I'd had a more accepting view of everything back then because I'd be much further along than I am now. Take it for what it's worth, but don't ever rule anything out. Learn everything you can.

The Jeet Kune Do (Bruce Lee's style) side of me kicks in here where Lee teaches us that you should never discard anything without first having a thorough understanding of what exactly it has to offer and how it can be used. First, you should perfect what you have learned. Even then, one should still practice utilization until he sees that no possible good can come of it before discarding. I like to apply this to playing guitar.

I generally do all of my technique practice during the weekdays after work because I hate composing on a timeline. I try to compose on the weekends. This allows me the time to gather a few ideas from practice to add into my composition time. After I finish up on Sunday, I generally have a list full of things that I need to practice that carries over into my after-work time.




IF YOU READ NOTHING ELSE, READ THIS:

It may be something that you don't want to hear or do, but learning to read sheet music (I learned to read it by writing it) and writing a short etude for everything you learn is 2 of the biggest pieces of advice I can give you. This accomplishes a number of things, namely putting into practice what you learn and getting into a rhythm of composing.

 

[MYGFH]

Same boat too. Came to the same realization about a year ago. Taking lessons now, its working. ...lots of work... Good luck!

 

[DarksomeOrigin]

I think a good starting point would be to start to learn the "theoretical side" for lack of a better term, of the music you already enjoy, and go from there. If you're into stoner/doomy stuff, thats going to be learning all the positions of your pentatonic scale and blues scales, I'd study a bit of blues style harmony, get your different 7th chord types down, etc.

As far as sweep picking goes, I *always* start my students with really simple 2 string shapes ala Yngwie (Rising Force and Trilogy Suite are good examples) and Ritchie Blackmore (technically did not sweep, but you can arrange his arpeggio bits as 2 string shapes very easily. Try the intro for Kill the King by Rainbow for example). The solo section for Fast as a Shark by Accept is another good example. 2 String sweeps are easier on the left hand and really force you to pay attention to the whole rest stroke motion.

 

[lookslikemeband]

The #1 thing I have my students do to clean up their playing is to practice slightly above bedroom levels with a metronome and their amp on CLEAN.

Distortion hides soooo many flaws in our playing.

 

[EcoliUVA]

Check out 80H's link in my sig. Sums up a lot of great thoughts on building technical prowess (not only for sweeps, despite the name). I was 23 when I buckled down, so don't sweat the fact that you're not a kid anymore. Exercises are available everywhere to those interested in finding them, so I'll just offer a quick summary:

Basically, it boils down to focusing intensely on what you're doing wrong, then sloooooooow everything down and fix it. Or alternatively, if you don't know what the exact problem is, find out how to do it right (accurately), and start very veeeeery slowly, making sure it IS right. Use a slow metronome if you find yourself wanting to speed up. Perfect repetition is key. Don't watch TV and mindlessly run sloppy scales (not that you are, just don't ).

PRACTICE WITH YOUR BRAIN, NOT YOUR HANDS!

 

[aeonrevolution]

Took your guy's advice on slowing down. Fully learned my first ENTIRE scale

Went with Lydian. I can sweep the stuff around the 12th fret fairly slowly. I forgot how quick I pick up on things with these long skinny fingers.

Thanks for all the replies duders!

 

[lookslikemeband]

Took your guy's advice on slowing down. Fully learned my first ENTIRE scale

Went with Lydian. I can sweep the stuff around the 12th fret fairly slowly. I forgot how quick I pick up on things with these long skinny fingers.

Thanks for all the replies duders!

Extend it out to two octaves....

 

[guitarfan85]

Practicing with your metronome is important, but don't use it for all of your scalar practice. And dont just blaze straight up and down ALL the time. Break things up a bit. Throw in bends. Try different rthyms and patterns within those scales.

Don't turn in to a mindless shred robot tool like players like Michael Angelo batio, rusty Cooley, john petrucci.

To me, some players are TOO perfect. TOO precise. And they become so robotic that they lack flavor and feeling. To me.

 

[ascl]

Don't turn in to a mindless shred robot tool like players like Michael Angelo batio, rusty Cooley, john petrucci.

To me, some players are TOO perfect. TOO precise. And they become so robotic that they lack flavor and feeling. To me.

I'd love to have that as the biggest problem with my playing! haha

 

[tyler_faith_08]

Practicing with your metronome is important, but don't use it for all of your scalar practice. And dont just blaze straight up and down ALL the time. Break things up a bit. Throw in bends. Try different rthyms and patterns within those scales.

Great advice.

Don't turn in to a mindless shred robot tool like players like Michael Angelo batio, rusty Cooley, john petrucci.

I can see the first two to an extent, but from a strictly observational standpoint, I would say that putting Petrucci into this category is wildly inaccurate. Good thought, terrible set of examples.

 

[guitarfan85]

Great advice.



I can see the first two to an extent, but from a strictly observational standpoint, I wouldn't say that putting Petrucci into this category is wildly inaccurate. Good thought, terrible set of examples.

I apologize. I pretty much based my opinion off of demonstration videos I've seen of petrucci on how to play fast. But I do have the live in new York DVD (came out a long time ago). And I guess as far as technique, he doesnt make it look easy to me it looks a little forced.

Yngwie probably has the most natural, organic, relaxed technique I have ever seen. Sure, he is robotic in the sense that he goes on autopilot when he improvises and runs through the same licks. But his technique is totally natural and not forced

 

[tyler_faith_08]

I apologize. I pretty much based my opinion off of demonstration videos I've seen of petrucci on how to play fast. But I do have the live in new York DVD (came out a long time ago). And I guess as far as technique, he doesnt make it look easy to me it looks a little forced.

Yngwie probably has the most natural, organic, relaxed technique I have ever seen. Sure, he is robotic in the sense that he goes on autopilot when he improvises and runs through the same licks. But his technique is totally natural and not forced

I can see that. Those videos really don't shed much light on what material he has that really stands out.

Not really pinpointing you here, but a lot of people seem to skew the correct definition of guitarist. A guitarist is someone who plays guitar. The best guitarist is the guy who plays the guitar the most effectively an has all of the techniques down. Someone who writes their music is a composer. Guitarists can also be composers. Someone who writes a masterpiece doesn't necessarily become the best guitarist.

A lot of guys say that Hendrix was the best guitarist, which I find to be complete bullshit. He played very little that should even begin to constitute him as "a great guitarist". On a compositional level, that may be a different story. It's kind of like this, do the guys who nail every technique ever get recognition? I mean, there are guys out there (granted, not many) who cover MAB's speed kills and that are probably a better guitarist than Eric Clapton will ever be, but what do they have to show for their music? Clapton is one of those names that your grandma has probably heard. Doesn't make him a great guitarist, it makes him a great songwriter.

My technique kind of sucks if you only give me 30 seconds notice on playing, but I can get back up to speed on everything that I've ever written in a matter of a few hours. I'm not bragging by any means, I've just got years spent on practicing for hours a day under my belt, but the only place that gets me is being able to play what I compose. That being said, my bottleneck is composition right now, which is limited by study, which is limited by knowing what to look for (theory)

To the OP, separate your practice, study, and composition into separate groups. You can study music on your way to work and you can compose (however crude it may be) on a notepad while at work or on the throne. If you get a chance to practice, go practice. If you come across a question that you don't know the answer to about theory, write it down and Google it when you get home or ask one of us if you just don't get it.

Sorry, I just wanted to write a few sentences. It turned into what you see here.

 

[gabesrups]

If you have the cash I recommend getting private lessons. I take lessons from Nicholas llerandi from ever forthright and javier Reyes from animals as leaders. They have both totally opened my eyes on how to play the guitar. I never understood polyrhythms or ever thought about writing that way. Now after a few lessons it's really easy. I highly recommend getting skype lessons. Research guys like rusty cooley.