Uganda Passes "Kill the Gays Bill"

[SenorDingDong]

Should I feel bad that I found that video slightly funny?

It's a stupid thing but the delivery in the video is stupid almost in a funny way.

Like ice cream?

 

[Necris]

Looks like Nigeria are pushing through a similar anti-gay bill, although I see no mention of death penalties you could get a minimum of 10 years for so much as living with a person of the same sex or showing support for the idea of a pride march, 14 for trying to actually have a wedding.

 

[flint757]

You know I would say that the one positive is the anti-gay mentality is attached to an extremely negative stigma with Africa, but then again I'm sure American Christian Anti-Gays probably think themselves to be saints for not enacting similar policies here.

 

[SpaceDock]

Christianity is great isn't it.

 

[tacotiklah]

Christianity is great isn't it.

I'm a bi transwoman and I still don't blame Christianity. I blame the assholes that ignore it's most basic tenets of love and tolerance in favor of personal agendas.

As far as this bill goes, now you guys know why I was bitching as much as I was about chik fil a and it's funding of anti-gay hate groups that were pushing for laws like this to be passed. People thought I was crazy as fuck and ranting and railing about a "harmless" sandwich company.

No, American corporations share some of the blame of this happening. Now there will be a bloodbath because of our arrogance and ignorance.

 

[GuitaristOfHell]

I say we bomb those fuckers. Are you kidding me? Take that bitch out who approved this!

 

[Stealthtastic]

Yeah... Just got into a huge arguement with my father about this very thing when I showed him.. Horrible to know he supported it..

 

[groph]

Nah, it's the people, they're the idiots. The guys in power are just taking the easiest route in order to manipulate and further strengthen their position. It's the people's fault - they are the ones who let themselves be fooled and manipulated.

I'd be a bit more cautious when saying things like that, are you sure the democratic process is so functional in Uganda? I'd say you're treading the line of victim blaming here. Maybe it's not a unanimous decision amongst Ugandans that homosexuality ought to be punishable by death/life sentence.

Africa is technically in the 21st century but still in the stone age... armed with 20 century weapons.

Derek

Thinly veiled racism. I'm not putting you on the same level as Hitler (and I'm not perfect either) I just don't want to be the lefty who gets off on calling somebody racist and leaving it at that. Just keep in mind that human societies don't all "advance" in the same way nor is human "progress" measurable in a linear sense.

It's terrible, but I can't say I'm surprised. Some countries just shouldn't be allowed independence, never mind the ability to create laws (highly bloated opinion, so don't try and bitch me out about how all countries deserve yadda yadda blah blah blah).

I will bitch you out about eurocentrism. What standards ought countries live up to to decide if they can make laws or not? It's really tough to make any call about how countries ought to be like X or Y without in some way imposing what you're used to onto other countries with the implication that your way is the best way. Here it's really easy to argue for the separation of church and state (and I agree with that, I'm just saying one should keep that in mind. I'm being eurocentric too).



Anyway.

Is it okay that Uganda has passed such a law that criminalizes homosexuality and can we just explain away any objections as "cultural relativism?" I figure a line has to be drawn SOMEWHERE and to the West, having religion influence politics THAT much is a shocking thing. We're reeling from hearing about what happened in Ireland but Ireland is culturally close enough to the US and Canada that people are pretty comfortable saying "abortion should be legal, separation of church and state is a good thing" because it fits our world view and has a function within our own societies.

I guess Uganda is quite a different culture/society/nation than the West. Does that make sentencing "convicted" homosexuals to life just? No, I don't think so, here is an instance where I would eschew cultural relativism but I cannot apply that principle to every matter of social justice evenly so my viewpoint is not sufficiently developed to make any big grand statement here.

This does definitely illustrate a conflict between a certain notion of liberty and a certain notion of the separation of church and state. Civil rights shouldnt be a matter of democracy, you shouldn't vote to kill the gays nor should a more totalitarian government be influenced by the church to pass a kill the gays law. This is a violation of the right to life which I would HOPE is pretty universalizable without being "eurocentric," surely wanting to live is something all human beings want, with the exception of very specific circumstances like consensual murder.

My own point of view here is probably consonant with most people on this board, including the individuals here I "called out" (I do so not out of a sense that I want to come across as smarter or superior to in some way, I want to promote some sense of critical thought on this board and I hope I do a passable job of it, and I am open to debate regardless of anybody's point of view.) I do not think it is just to persecute homosexual people in this way, especially when it comes to religious institutions and the power they influence over populations and governments. I dont think a religious institution ought to have ANY influence on social policy. I suppose a word could be said about colonialism here since this is a Christian (European) religious insitution that wouldn't necessarily have been there if history didn't play out the way it did. There probably isn't anything inherent in "Ugandan" culture or society that necessitates persecuting homosexuals in such a way. This is why I'm saying one ought not to look at Uganda as primitive or backwards. This can be looked at as a problem of Christianity or rather those who practice it, even more specifically as those who hold considerable power in the Christian institutions in question here.

 

[TheHandOfStone]

Should I feel bad that I found that video slightly funny?

It's a stupid thing but the delivery in the video is stupid almost in a funny way.

No, I think trying to find humor in horrible situations is a natural coping mechanism. Case in point:

Eat Da Poo Poo - thrash metal remix - YouTube

The World as a whole, in my view at least, is accelerating away from this kind of thing at a phenomenal rate, so let's hope this is short-lived and doesn't cost too many lives (whether through death, imprisonment or emotional suffering) in the mean time. Hold tight dudes and dudettes.

Your stance on this is refreshingly optimistic, but the cynic in me is scared to embrace it. Either way, you're right in that we need to weather it with courage. I'm reasonably confident they'll eventually come to tolerate homosexuality, even if they still try and discourage it. That I think is a realistic hope for the near future.

I'm a bi transwoman and I still don't blame Christianity. I blame the assholes that ignore it's most basic tenets of love and tolerance in favor of personal agendas.

As far as this bill goes, now you guys know why I was bitching as much as I was about chik fil a and it's funding of anti-gay hate groups that were pushing for laws like this to be passed. People thought I was crazy as fuck and ranting and railing about a "harmless" sandwich company.

No, American corporations share some of the blame of this happening. Now there will be a bloodbath because of our arrogance and ignorance.

I agree - I'm wary of throwing all Christians under the bus just because some of them are nuts. But the fact that people in so-called "tolerant" countries will still fork over money to groups like these is disturbing, and is part of the reason I'm not as optimistic as Scar Symmetry. I hope that the donors didn't realize this would all come to pass, but as people don't generally throw large sums of money to groups they haven't thoroughly examined, I'm kind of skeptical of that too.

 

[TheOddGoat]

Thinly veiled racism. I'm not putting you on the same level as Hitler (and I'm not perfect either) I just don't want to be the lefty who gets off on calling somebody racist and leaving it at that. Just keep in mind that human societies don't all "advance" in the same way nor is human "progress" measurable in a linear sense.

He's saying a lot of policy there is like our policy from the past, but their technology is modern.

So basically saying they have our old policies about homosexuality backed up with more modern muscle.

How does that involve race at all?

 

[Sang-Drax]

Has nobody seen this?

*eat da poo poo video*

...because it's perfectly reasonable to execute those who eat feces!

And it gets worse:

- Are they going to kill those who eat da poo poo and are not gay? No.
- Are they going to not kill those who are gay and don't eat da poo poo? No (I hope you'll be able to understand the triple negative )

Such are the inconsistencies of fundamentalism

 

[TheOddGoat]

I'm going to campaign for mankind's right to eat da poo poo.

 

[Kodee_Kaos]

Damn. Well that kills my dream of ever partying it up in a Ugandan gay bar.

 

[johnny666]

Yeah the whole thing is reDONKulas, and killing gays for eating da poo poo? why hate them if they like it then so be it, they're not rubbing it in every bodies faces. How does eating da poo poo justify taking someones life.
I know one thing that Veronica Moser wouldn't last 5 seconds in Uganda...she really likes poo...its just unhealthy.
Deep Inside Veronica Moser's Mind - YouTube
But yeah i recommend checking this doco out to see the retardation of peoples mentalities in Uganda...A gay radio announcer from the UK goes to Uganda to find out more about the anti-gay thing going on over there. interesting stuff but at the same time it amazes me how stupid peoples mentalities really are.
The Worlds Worst Place To Be Gay 1/4 - YouTube