Ukraine (sorry?)

[YolandaSargent]

Both sides don't care about Ukraine, they're struggling for geopolitical things and Ukraine is just stuck between them cause it's too weak now after all these events and can't get out on its own. I feel sorry for all those folks in Ukraine and hope this won't lead us to a new chapter of Cold War.

 

[Dan]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in depth here but there is a simple reason why the Russian government has looked to take over the Crimean peninsula:

Black Sea Fleet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Under an EU favoured government the Crimea could (and probably would) impose sanctions and restrictions on the Russian naval fleets based there. If the Russian government is able to take over the area they would be able to implement a more permanent base their for naval operations.

It's all geopolitics at the end of the day, i wouldn't compare it to the Nazi's but it is a forced takeover that's for sure.

 

[PlumbTheDerps]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in depth here but there is a simple reason why the Russian government has looked to take over the Crimean peninsula:

Black Sea Fleet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Under an EU favoured government the Crimea could (and probably would) impose sanctions and restrictions on the Russian naval fleets based there. If the Russian government is able to take over the area they would be able to implement a more permanent base their for naval operations.

It's all geopolitics at the end of the day, i wouldn't compare it to the Nazi's but it is a forced takeover that's for sure.

It's kind of terrible to compare Russia to the Nazis given what happened to the USSR during WW2, but unfortunately, the parallels are compelling. Both countries suffered a humiliating period of economic and political weakness (post-Versailles for Germany; post-1992 for Russia); both countries elected autocrats who pledged to make the country strong again; both countries utilized the excuse of ethnic minorities in neighboring regions to annex territory and acquire power.

The key difference is that the power differential, both military and economic, between Germany and the rest of Europe was far, far greater than that between Russia and Europe/the United States right now. Russia is still a middle-income rentier state at best with a weak military that is in no position to become a global hegemon. Even if it wanted to, nuclear deterrence is still a thing, and many of the areas Putin would probably like to take back are part of NATO. I could easily see Putin annexing part of Moldova, though.

 

[MailMan]

I could easily see Putin annexing part of Moldova, though.

If you mean Transnistria, I think Romania would object against that quite harshly, because formally it's still a part of Moldova, and there are close ties between the two countries. And Romania is a NATO member.

Also, Transnistria is not connected to Russia by land or sea, so I don't think it's that important to Putin right now. In the long run, though, who knows...

 

[Jakke]

The inside scoop from our foreign minister is that Russia now faces possible G8 expulsion.

 

[Eric Christian]

I think the United Nations charter regarding self determination applies in the case of Crimea at this point regardless of anything Obama and various EU officials say.

"The United Nations charter states the importance of self-determination in its first article, that it is one of the key principles of relations between nations. The argument is that a people should always be able to determine who governs them. This can also be connected to the concept of popular sovereignty, which is the principle that a government obtains its legitimacy from the people it governs."

Crimea Referendum Results Put Self-Determination to the Test

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

The inside scoop from our foreign minister is that Russia now faces possible G8 expulsion.

And Russia's response to that so far seems to be "lol so what?"

 

[pylyo]

BBC News - Ukraine far-right leader Muzychko dies 'in police raid'

 

[oversteve]

I think the United Nations charter regarding self determination applies in the case of Crimea at this point regardless of anything Obama and various EU officials say.

"The United Nations charter states the importance of self-determination in its first article, that it is one of the key principles of relations between nations. The argument is that a people should always be able to determine who governs them. This can also be connected to the concept of popular sovereignty, which is the principle that a government obtains its legitimacy from the people it governs."

Crimea Referendum Results Put Self-Determination to the Test

Well, it is, but there are many issues with the way such self-determination was held - a few to list are the pressure of military presence, no proper preparations, no official observers, signs and proofs of numerous violations, outrageously fabricated results going beyond any expectations such as 123% of Sevastopol population voting.

I won't say there are no people wanting to join Russia but lets do a simple math. According to the official poles held in autumn there were like 40% supporting that idea, the overall Crimean nationalities are distributed like this - 59% Russian, 24.5% Ukrainian, 12.1% Crimean Tatars and a few percent other minorities, the official results or the referendum are - 80% of people participated, 96.8% of them supported Russian option, that is basicaly 77.5% of total population. Accroding to Crimean Tatars' representatives 99% of their nation didn't vote. So even if we consider all 100% of these 59% Russian voting that basicaly leaves 18% for the Ukrainians in Crimea out of 24.5% - 3/4 total Ukrainian population in Crimea voting agains Ukraine - that is absurd.

Also as you can see the only countries that approved the results of referendum are the ones being under Russian authority or the likes of North Korea.

 

[asher]

All that aside, a referendum where the options are "Yes, now" or "Yes, later" is bullshit at the most basic of levels.

 

[oversteve]

Btw there is a great site about some bull showed by the media considering Ukrainian people, at first it was in Russian only but now it's in English so check for yourself StopFake | Struggle against fake information about events in Ukraine during crisis in Crimea

Also two more interesting videos

That is how people of Ternopil in Wester Ukraine act when they see Russian flag, it's one of these regions claimed to be full of nazis and nationalists hating Russians


And that is Simferopol in Crimea and Ukrainian flag

 

[Necris]

Ukraine prepares armed response as city seized by pro-Russia forces | Reuters

Things most certainly aren't improving.

 

[The Q]

Damn it. Feels like this: 'The Daily Show' Explains the Crimea Situation: 'Putin Doesn't Give a S--t' - The Wire

 

[Amanita]

once they took Crimea they need a land access to it. that wasn't hard to forsee.
what makes it relatively easy is that the three oblasts in questions have the highest percentage of ethnic Russians and russophones after Crimea.
Russian language in Ukraine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[oversteve]

Seems like our government at last started opposing Russia, some crazy shit happening in the Eastern regions, to many details but in general the separatists obviously led by the Russian special forces supplying the arms take their stand behind the coomon local people, predominantly some elder women or children, just like Putin said in the earlier speech that they will hide behind the backs of Crimean women and children.

Also can't say anything about the foreign news but the likes of Russia Today show that the local pro-russian people that were as always peacefuly demonstrating are opposed by the armed forces of the nationalists from the Western Ukraine, however it is the anti-terrorist operation that started today with the means of Ukrainian special forces to expell the representatives of Russian Federal Security Service to stop all that mess.

 

[oversteve]

Also some videos of "common people of Donetsk" and "selforganized defense forces" with Russian army guns, machineguns, uniform and whatever, as always no Russian forces at all accroding to Russian media

 

[Jake]

Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine

 

[tedtan]

Damn.

 

[tacotiklah]

Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine

I feel horrible for the Jews there. Why the hell does everyone keep targeting them? Didn't WWII and the holocaust teach us why genocide is a no no?

 

[oversteve]

Don't know for sure, might be some other form of bull, there was one more paper going around there with the same stamps telling the local businessmen of Donetsk Republic to pay 20 usd every week.

Overall all these pro-russian gatherings in the East are ridiculously small, might be near 300-500 persons in some cities populated with 100k to 1000k people, most of them are local bums, criminals and some grannies and grandpas with USSR nostalgia led and given weapons by undercover members of Russian FSB which is something like CIA in US. These bastards use these elders as shields while occupying local administratove building and trying to oppose local police. However Russia tries it's best to show that there are big masses of "peacefull" people opposing current government, that the people speaking Russian are being descriminated and other crazy stuff, and that the government and nationalists from Western Ukraine try to silence them.

Also there was a Q&A line Putin yesterday where he said himself that there were Russian forces in Crimea from the very beggining when all that shit started, however in his earlier speech he claimed there were none. Basically Russian president confirms himself that he was officially telling a bull one month ago. Ain't he an asshole?