Necris
Bonitis.
So it turns out that the dangerous "Nazis" may well have been the pro-russian forces all along. Why am I not surprised?
Ukraine (sorry?)
- Thread starter marshallH
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So it turns out that the dangerous "Nazis" may well have been the pro-russian forces all along. Why am I not surprised?
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PlumbTheDerps
Well-Known Member
Also there was a Q&A line Putin yesterday where he said himself that there were Russian forces in Crimea from the very beggining when all that shit started, however in his earlier speech he claimed there were none. Basically Russian president confirms himself that he was officially telling a bull one month ago. Ain't he an asshole?
One of the (many) reasons I'm shocked anyone actually listens to Putin in any capacity is that his narratives on these things- whether it's gays at the olympics, Georgia in 2008, nuclear threat reduction, Ukraine- are completely incoherent. He doesn't even try to make his statements fit together.
MailMan
Well-Known Member
oversteve, where do you live within the Ukraine? Is there any sh.t stirring in your neighbourhood? I start to really fear for your country, who knows how far Putin will go...
Well, I live in Western part so it's all quiet here at least for now, it's in the East where major stuff happens, mainly in Slavyansk. In some other towns armored people try to assualt the government buildings and military bases from time to time but with no success. Also few hours ago news appeared that the members of OSCE mission were taken hostage by the local separatists and brought to Slavyansk, don't know if it's true but highly probable. And of course many are afraid of Russian invasion officialy starting but at the moment it is hard to say if it will, many officials (btw from Russia as well) claim that their available forces are not enough to achieve any major victories since there are many people ready to oppose them even in the East that is believed to be pro-Russian in it's most.
MailMan
Well-Known Member
Putin Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; Only 15% Voted For Annexation - Forbes
What can I say? I'm not surprised.
What can I say? I'm not surprised.
boroducci
Banned
So many "good" words about Russia and Putin.
Anybody could say that thier governments are better than Russian?
Stop make scapegoat from Putin.
All revolutions are made by hands of people, but not for people. It's all a political games.
Don't like Yanukovich? Vote for another president. Also I remember, that Yanukovich was elected by people of Ukraine, not by Putin.
Why USA and NATO want to place so many military bases near Russia? There was some info, that they wanted to place another one in Cremea instead of Russian base when Ukraine will be included in EU.
Current Ukrainian government still not paid for gas although it got money from EU.
See no difference between Maidan opposition and separatists on SouthEast.
First one was not elected on referendum. How they could say from name of Ukraine? Who gave them this right?
Same situation in Slavyansk and few more cities. Little group of people decide to be independent. They even made referendum.
If you think that there are terrorist, so current leaders of Ukraine are terrorists too.
Both of them, Government and separatists could be legal or illegal, everything depends of point of view.
Do all of you believe that Ukrainian media show and tell only the truth?
Anybody could say that thier governments are better than Russian?
Stop make scapegoat from Putin.
All revolutions are made by hands of people, but not for people. It's all a political games.
Don't like Yanukovich? Vote for another president. Also I remember, that Yanukovich was elected by people of Ukraine, not by Putin.
Why USA and NATO want to place so many military bases near Russia? There was some info, that they wanted to place another one in Cremea instead of Russian base when Ukraine will be included in EU.
Current Ukrainian government still not paid for gas although it got money from EU.
See no difference between Maidan opposition and separatists on SouthEast.
First one was not elected on referendum. How they could say from name of Ukraine? Who gave them this right?
Same situation in Slavyansk and few more cities. Little group of people decide to be independent. They even made referendum.
If you think that there are terrorist, so current leaders of Ukraine are terrorists too.
Both of them, Government and separatists could be legal or illegal, everything depends of point of view.
Do all of you believe that Ukrainian media show and tell only the truth?
We'll it's easy to say so knowing the current situation in Ukraine from "truthfull" Russian media 
It's hard not to blame your president considering what he's done in Crimea at first telling it wasn't him and then telling it's him after all
He already claimed 8 times that the forces situated on the Russian-Ukrainian border will be moved further from the border, however they are still there 
He's still keeping our former president and some other higher-ups that have international arrest warrants issued against them.
No difference with Maidan you say? Have you seen people during Maidan mess call for help of NATO forces? Did you see any people in western Ukraine telling they want to separate and join Poland for example? Did you see any people with the portable rocket launchers taking down helicopters and shooting Berkut with the machine guns? I guess you didn't.
I don't even want to comment the referendum, a friend of mine managed to vote 6 times in Donetsk, even twice on the same voting district It's just a piece of all that absurd going there.
Won't say anything about the gas but considering current undeclared war I won't bother paying debts also the loss from the Crimea anexia are still being calculated.
About our government being legal or not - just try to read Wiki a little bit, not knowing it doesn't justify telling bull. The only legislative power in Ukraine is our parliament which was elected in 2012 and is still active, the government itself is the cabinet of ministers which is elected by our parliament.
I don't believe that Ukrainian media showing only the truth by any means but it is really no comparison to the Russian media creating whole different reality of what's happening in Ukraine. There's an interesting site proving the fakes shown in Russia in Ukraine, you can check it yourself StopFake | Struggle against fake information about events in Ukraine
Also I might seem like a nationalist myself living in Western Ukraine however I'm not. My parents came here from Yaroslavl which is in Russia, so I'm myself a Russian by nationality speaking Russian language 90% of time living among the ones who are supposed to hate me and having no problems at all.
It's hard not to blame your president considering what he's done in Crimea at first telling it wasn't him and then telling it's him after all
He already claimed 8 times that the forces situated on the Russian-Ukrainian border will be moved further from the border, however they are still there He's still keeping our former president and some other higher-ups that have international arrest warrants issued against them.No difference with Maidan you say? Have you seen people during Maidan mess call for help of NATO forces? Did you see any people in western Ukraine telling they want to separate and join Poland for example? Did you see any people with the portable rocket launchers taking down helicopters and shooting Berkut with the machine guns? I guess you didn't.
I don't even want to comment the referendum, a friend of mine managed to vote 6 times in Donetsk, even twice on the same voting district
It's just a piece of all that absurd going there. Won't say anything about the gas but considering current undeclared war I won't bother paying debts also the loss from the Crimea anexia are still being calculated.
About our government being legal or not - just try to read Wiki a little bit, not knowing it doesn't justify telling bull. The only legislative power in Ukraine is our parliament which was elected in 2012 and is still active, the government itself is the cabinet of ministers which is elected by our parliament.
I don't believe that Ukrainian media showing only the truth by any means but it is really no comparison to the Russian media creating whole different reality of what's happening in Ukraine. There's an interesting site proving the fakes shown in Russia in Ukraine, you can check it yourself StopFake | Struggle against fake information about events in Ukraine
Also I might seem like a nationalist myself living in Western Ukraine however I'm not. My parents came here from Yaroslavl which is in Russia, so I'm myself a Russian by nationality speaking Russian language 90% of time living among the ones who are supposed to hate me and having no problems at all.
boroducci
Banned
We'll it's easy to say so knowing the current situation in Ukraine from "truthfull" Russian media
I don't know what Russian media shows, I don't watch TV last 7 years.
Our border is our border, our land. Our forces are placed anywhere they want on our land.
Can't say anything about forces in Crimea. Russian Army was there before. I'm not a president, I don't know everything.
I'm not a Putinist, I never want Crimea to become part of Russia. Could say the same about South-East part of Ukraine.
About guns. I watch lot of videos where ukrainian peaceful revolutionaries throw Molotov in Berkut. Somebody shoot from guns.
Question about snipers has no answer yet. Last info I know that they were not Berkut snipers.
No answers about tragedy in Odessa.
But Ukrainian media and officials claim that was provocation of russian saboteurs and prorussian activists. although there are no results of the investigation yet.
Also one of ukrainian official says that there are no russian and Chechen soldiers among separatists.
I have nothing personally against you. Maybe our president is liar, but current leaders of your country too.
It's not only tv, try to check Russian news sites or communities.
I'm not saying that our politics are saint by no means. We have a big bunch of assholes here as well it's just that part of them are afraid of people anger and try to fix something and others still doing the same thing being financed by the Yanukovych family leftovers that are now given shelter by Putin.
Sorry but comparing self made molotov coctails and traumatic guns to machine guns and rpg's is a bit awkward. I won't claim there were no guns at all, but their number during maidan was not that big compared to other self made non lethal stuff. The demonstrants didn't took hostages, if someone from Berkut was taken the worst thing that could happen is that someone kicked his ass brought to the scene and made him publicly apologize. And what we have with the "peacefull unarmed" separatists? I guess you've at least heard about them imprisoning the OSCE observers group?
Odessa incident is being checked throughout. I don't know if the results of the investigation will be ever publicy exposed, just take Nord-Ost or Kursk sub-marine into consideration for example - many people died and noone to blame. But one thing is clear - the pro-Ukrainian march was attacked by the pro-Russian activists covered by some mebers of local police, that's when all that mess started and led to cassualties. Both forces try to interpret it their own way but there are still many questions to be answered.
All politics are liars to some extent. The broblem is that extent. Ours in no position now to falsify something big since they are being observed by the US and EU and they don't want to lose their support to be left with Russia one on one.
Same here, have nothing against you personaly but please behold yourself of writing thing you didn't properly check.
I'm not saying that our politics are saint by no means. We have a big bunch of assholes here as well it's just that part of them are afraid of people anger and try to fix something and others still doing the same thing being financed by the Yanukovych family leftovers that are now given shelter by Putin.
Sorry but comparing self made molotov coctails and traumatic guns to machine guns and rpg's is a bit awkward. I won't claim there were no guns at all, but their number during maidan was not that big compared to other self made non lethal stuff. The demonstrants didn't took hostages, if someone from Berkut was taken the worst thing that could happen is that someone kicked his ass brought to the scene and made him publicly apologize. And what we have with the "peacefull unarmed" separatists? I guess you've at least heard about them imprisoning the OSCE observers group?
Odessa incident is being checked throughout. I don't know if the results of the investigation will be ever publicy exposed, just take Nord-Ost or Kursk sub-marine into consideration for example - many people died and noone to blame. But one thing is clear - the pro-Ukrainian march was attacked by the pro-Russian activists covered by some mebers of local police, that's when all that mess started and led to cassualties. Both forces try to interpret it their own way but there are still many questions to be answered.
All politics are liars to some extent. The broblem is that extent. Ours in no position now to falsify something big since they are being observed by the US and EU and they don't want to lose their support to be left with Russia one on one.
Same here, have nothing against you personaly but please behold yourself of writing thing you didn't properly check.
As a westerner, who doesn't even speak/read any of your languages, I find it hugely difficult to even so-so understand what's really going on.
All I can do is search, read and watch this or that from both sides, and due to not knowing the actual languages, I can't even follow media from Ukraine itself.
It 's obviously a huge geopolitical game, where all participants have each their stakes, and the various media have each their angles.
The only thing I seem to see is that the majority of Ukraine seems to want to be Ukraine, not merge with either Russia nor the EU. Correct?
Thanks for the Stop Lies link; will do some readings in there.
All I can do is search, read and watch this or that from both sides, and due to not knowing the actual languages, I can't even follow media from Ukraine itself.
It 's obviously a huge geopolitical game, where all participants have each their stakes, and the various media have each their angles.
The only thing I seem to see is that the majority of Ukraine seems to want to be Ukraine, not merge with either Russia nor the EU. Correct?
Thanks for the Stop Lies link; will do some readings in there.
crg123
SS.orgLocalArchitect
Wow the situation has gotten pretty bad... just look at who's running....
European Elections 2014: Darth Vader of the Internet Party Runs for Mayor in Kiev, Ukraine
Ukraine's Darth Vader bids to lead nation to the dark side | World news | theguardian.com
Haha I'm sorry. The situation is extremely serious but this is just too Fvcking hilarious not to share
European Elections 2014: Darth Vader of the Internet Party Runs for Mayor in Kiev, Ukraine
Ukraine's Darth Vader bids to lead nation to the dark side | World news | theguardian.com
Haha I'm sorry. The situation is extremely serious but this is just too Fvcking hilarious not to share
arktan
Icnomptenent
It does not matter what russian or western media (I wrote it in that order because it is sorted alphabetically) keeps on pumping out into the world. It is a huge amount of propaganda from both sides (I am a genius!). The key word here is "Geo-strategy" and that game started for real during the olympic games.
I know already 3 sides that have lost: EU, Russia, Ukraine (again alphabetically)
Winners: Basically everybody who will take over the demand of gas which the EU had satisfied from Russian deliveries. Another winner: China -> they got some good prices for Russian gas.
So as it is right now the People in eastern Ukraine will gain nothing nor will the Ukrainian government. The prize has already been taken. The fights that continue are completely senseless from a logical point of view. But national pride and fear is in the game so this will go where it wants to and nobody has a clue... they all just prefer to escalate and see if this presents them with a better situation.
One can read this story over and over in history books.
I know already 3 sides that have lost: EU, Russia, Ukraine (again alphabetically)
Winners: Basically everybody who will take over the demand of gas which the EU had satisfied from Russian deliveries. Another winner: China -> they got some good prices for Russian gas.
So as it is right now the People in eastern Ukraine will gain nothing nor will the Ukrainian government. The prize has already been taken. The fights that continue are completely senseless from a logical point of view. But national pride and fear is in the game so this will go where it wants to and nobody has a clue... they all just prefer to escalate and see if this presents them with a better situation.
One can read this story over and over in history books.
Necris
Bonitis.
About merging with EU or Russia - we are not merging with EU, it's an ecconomical association agreement, some people (in the east especially) are against it overall it is because due to our heavy industry being Russia-oriented for a long time, the holders of which instead of investing the funds into modernisation to bring down the production cost in majority kept the money to become richer, so they will need to spend lots of funds to become competitive in EU. Russia threatens to cease the orders however the reality is that in 2-3 last years before the mess started the number of orders from them decreased greatly and kept decreasing so the production reorientation is imminent anyway.
About Darth - yep, that's one funny moment, at first he was going to join the president election however wasn't registered. But still participated in elections of mayour. There some nice commercials )
About geo-strategy stuff - for all of us being common people it's hard to say what is the real idea behind all of this, there are many theories like the one presented, oil prices going down, NATO bases, Putin going nuts etc, all of them seem to explain the situation in some way however it's hard to tell which is dominant and is a real reason for what's happening.
And about elections - yep, seems like we have a new president already, to tell the truth I didn't vote for him and can't say that he's the ideal person to suit the needs of people in the current situation but who knows.
Also there is already an interesting story with the elections and guess who is involved?
It's Russia
In short Russian news claimed that the picture showing that representative of Right Sector Dmitriy Yarosh leading the elections appeared on central election commision's site. However it didn't. Later on SBU (Ukrainian CIA or FBI analog) told that there were some hacker attacks on sites however they didn't succeed so it's probable that someone really wanted to place that stuff.
About Darth - yep, that's one funny moment, at first he was going to join the president election however wasn't registered. But still participated in elections of mayour. There some nice commercials )
About geo-strategy stuff - for all of us being common people it's hard to say what is the real idea behind all of this, there are many theories like the one presented, oil prices going down, NATO bases, Putin going nuts etc, all of them seem to explain the situation in some way however it's hard to tell which is dominant and is a real reason for what's happening.
And about elections - yep, seems like we have a new president already, to tell the truth I didn't vote for him and can't say that he's the ideal person to suit the needs of people in the current situation but who knows.
Also there is already an interesting story with the elections and guess who is involved?
It's Russia
In short Russian news claimed that the picture showing that representative of Right Sector Dmitriy Yarosh leading the elections appeared on central election commision's site. However it didn't. Later on SBU (Ukrainian CIA or FBI analog) told that there were some hacker attacks on sites however they didn't succeed so it's probable that someone really wanted to place that stuff.
boroducci
Banned
central election commision's site was hacked by Cyber Berkut. It's not a secret, CB wrote about this hacker attack all over the internet. CyberBerkut also said that there is USA IT-company that has an unlimited access to this cite. logs and screenshots are available. Also there is information that this IT-company is located on US military base.
So there are some interesting questions and thoughts about independent Ukraine...
So there are some interesting questions and thoughts about independent Ukraine...
Well, it's in case they are not simply bitchin' like many communities in social networks. Considering current situation they look like some mediocre scum. Also foreign companies administrating sites is a common experience so I guess there is nothing extraordinary even if it is so especially considering that the site is only used to represent the available data and the calculations are still made by hand.
And one more time
And one more time
MailMan
Well-Known Member
I just read that Russian tanks crossed the border of Ukraine. Just what the hell...
UnderTheSign
Well-Known Member
"We're only here to protect our own border, we swear! Any taking over territory is fully the choice of the inhabitants!"
