Ordacleaphobia
Shameless Contrarian
I agree. I look at the whole thing kind of like the famous pornography description: "it's tough to classify but you know it when you see it."
It may well be a different 'ism' but you'll know it when you see it.
US Political Discussion: Biden/Harris Edition (Rules in OP)
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I agree. I look at the whole thing kind of like the famous pornography description: "it's tough to classify but you know it when you see it."
It may well be a different 'ism' but you'll know it when you see it.
Yul Brynner
Custom title
Is anyone else in love with AOC?
I mean, I think she's pretty cool for a freshman representative and I hope she inspires more young progressive people to run, to avoid taking corporate donations, etc. I'm really worried though that there seems to be so much focus on her and expectations that she's like the "savior of the left". Eventually she's going to make some compromise that upsets people or says something stupid. I just really hate the cult of personality approach that seems to be so common these days. The left seems to desperately want to hang our entire future on one or a small number of shining personalities, whether it's AOC, Mueller, Bernie, or Beto. That just seems like a risky strategy to me and is setting us up for disappointment.
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Drew
Forum MVP
You know, that's an important distinction I think you just drew, and I'll confess it wasn't one I was really making previously.
There is definitely a distinction, if subtle, between racism, the hatred of a race or ethnic group or groups, and xenophobia, the hatred of pretty much anyone who isn't the same as you. In the former you're making relative judgements of the merits of different races; in the latter, it's less about retlative judgement so much as you just want to be with your own culture.
I don't think xenophobia is any better than racism, exactly... But I think it's not at all controversial to argue that Trump's supporters are xenophobic. It's just evidently somewhat controversial to argue that race is what drives that xenophobia. I think in at least a very significant number of cases racism is the driving force behind that xenophobia, and Trump's talk about why we have to take immigrants from shithole countries like the Dominican Republic and why can't we take more Norwegian immigrants doesn't do him any favors... but it's probably a lower bar to argue xenophobia than racism.
Yul Brynner
Custom title
No I just meant she is hot.
All misogynistic toxic masculine joking aside, I like her ideas and how she handles herself in a much more adult and professional manner than most politicians. I do agree about treating them as celebrity personalities. However, change has to start some way. I really hope she sticks with it and doesn't cave in to pressure or assassination.
I think it's pretty telling that overwhelmingly the conservative and Republican reaction to the Green New Deal is to simply spread lies and misinformation about what it is.
My boss, the first day it was all in the news, is walking around telling the office that the Green New Deal is going to make air travel and cow ownership illegal. It's like dude, how dumb do you think we are? And do you realize how dumb it makes you seem to say something like that?
My boss, the first day it was all in the news, is walking around telling the office that the Green New Deal is going to make air travel and cow ownership illegal. It's like dude, how dumb do you think we are? And do you realize how dumb it makes you seem to say something like that?
Yul Brynner
Custom title
Reminds me of all the fear mongering over communism during the Cold War. And religious people talking about anything that isn't religious.
Ordacleaphobia
Shameless Contrarian
Yes, and no at the same time.
Yes, because I love how anti-establishment she is. She isn't afraid to butt heads with other democrats, and while I don't think that will do her any favors professionally, I think her sticking to her ideals and the extent to which she's willing to fight for them is quite commendable and something our country needs more of. We need more people that are more concerned about improving the country than with getting re-elected in 2 years minus one day.
And...no...because she does do and say some pretty dumb things. Her Green New Deal is completely half cocked, and with the way she handles her public relations, she's pretty much just left-wing Trump. Needs a little improvement, but overall, I'm okay with her so far. Once she gets a bit more time in office I think she could actually turn into quite a powerhouse.
Yeah, the dumb overreactions and walking clickbait video titles are obnoxious, but I do think it definitely needed to get run over the coals in the state that it was in. That line about supporting those "unwilling to work" was a complete joke; not to mention the absolutely ridiculous amount of money the thing would cost. I'd definitely be open to a more refined, reigned-in, realistically amended version later on down the line because that is definitely the direction the country needs to take.
Yul Brynner
Custom title
I think that was kinda the point. No it isn't fleshed out but at least it's being talked about. People keep talking about the ridiculous amounts of money the green deal or whatever the hell they call it would cost but they don't really mind the ridiculous amounts of money we spend on wars and military equipment.
Yul Brynner
Custom title
How far over budget is the F35 boondoggle?
They phase out older models like the F14 citing the expensive operation and maintenance cost then go on to spend trillions on a replacement.
They phase out older models like the F14 citing the expensive operation and maintenance cost then go on to spend trillions on a replacement.
Ordacleaphobia
Shameless Contrarian
Agree
Rich are being taxed very highly already, going even higher would be a push and still not get us anywhere close. Closing offshore loopholes and the like would help, though.
Agree, and already happening. Not as well as you would expect, though. The numbers here in California have been falling short of projections (because they're taxing the shit out of it).
I can't recall the estimated cost of the GND but it was someone in the double digit trillions. There was just too much unneeded stuff in there that if you gutted the fluff and kept the important pieces, I think it'd be a really viable idea. As it stands though, I don't think we could even realistically get close.
Drew
Forum MVP
The most charitable defense of the Green New Deal I've seen is that while it's not a moderate, pragmatic, and "sensible" incremental approach, on the other hand moderate, pragmatic, and sensibly incremental approaches to deal with climate change have so far failed, so maybe it DOES make sense to swing for the fences and push a wholesale reimagining of the US and world economies.
I mean, that's not a crazy argument, and we are rapidly running out of time to address climate change before we hit a point of no return.
I mean, that's not a crazy argument, and we are rapidly running out of time to address climate change before we hit a point of no return.
I don't think "tax the rich" is a viable strategy. I think we need to broaden the tax base. Yeah, we need to have higher top marginal rates, but we don't need just one at incomes over $10mm or whatever, taxes need to come up across the board for ALL americans. What we DO need to do is drop this mindset that we want these things provided by our government, and we want other people to pay for it. Rather, we need to understand government differently, as a service provider, that we make payments to ("taxes"), and get services provided in return. There's a lot more accountability, for us and for the government, if we more directly link the concepts of taxation and government services.
Yul Brynner
Custom title
Nowhere near as much as they used to be.
Compared to?
Spaced Out Ace
Well-Known Member
"Eventually... says something stupid."
Spaced Out Ace
Well-Known Member
Yeah, because taxes aren't fucking the little guy hard enough yet, are they?
It sucks right now because the ROI isn't all that great. For anyone.
If we actually got healthcare, better infrastructure, and a decent safety net/social security system I'd be happy to pay more.
Right now, a significant amount of my paycheck goes to most those things already.
Almost $200 of every one of my (weekly) paychecks goes to medical coverage that seems to get shittier every couple of years, and a 401k/IRA because who knows if I'll even be able to collect social security when I retire.
My tax bill each week is about $700, so they'd have to raise taxes by nearly 30% before I'd be at a net loss, and even then if there's healthcare included I'd be well ahead in general.
jaxadam
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you need a new job!
I have it better than most, I'll stay.
But that doesn't mean things wouldn't be better if this country got its act together.
