Using technique in a musical context?

[justreleased09]

Hey guys!

I have spent many years workin on my technique. I have reach decent speed levels, know a decent amount of theory, and feel like I need to start applying the stuff I have worked on musicially. The problem is, I'm not sure how to incorparate the faster stuff in to a real musical context. All of the picking, legato, and sweeping stuff I have worked on is useless unless I can use it. I do not know how to take things from the metronome to an improv solo. Can someone help me learn to use my picking and stuff in real life haha?

I have considered trying to start from the very beginning and go back and learn solos that have fast passages and just learn by osmosis, so to speak. Which solos could I work on to start easing in to using this stuff musically? Where do I start?

Thanks guys!

 

[niffnoff]

There seems to be many parts which thrown me off in the explanation.

But yah, for a moment lets just take the metronome for one of your solos. If you've written a solo in tab, or gp that's too fast for you at the time. All you do is take the tempo of your track, and half it to a very slow and steady pace. This enables you to learn the solo and techniques you use to memory. Eventually you can bring up the tempo steadily (5-10 bpm preferably) and repeat until eventually you can play up to your desired tempo.

 

[Varcolac]

If you don't know how to use a technique musically, I'd say you don't have enough theory.

For practice, write some chord progressions. It could be the hilariously generic and simple I IV V or I V vi IV, or the horrific madness of Coltrane's substitutions, or even a twelve-bar blues. You know how to solo over a chord progression, right? If you see Am7 in your chord progression, you should know an A minor sweep pattern you can throw in. Or rather, you should know the notes of the chord, and if you want to go fast, use your sweep pattern. Try transitioning between fast and slow. Some long screeching high notes, and then some meedley-meedley sweeps.

Then try transitioning between chords. Can you start on the fourth beat of a bar, go up on an A minor pattern and come down on the first beat of the next bar on a G major? If you can do that for any chord progression, then you're well on your way to using technique in a musical way. The most important thing of course is that fast is not good. Good is not fast. Good is good, and fast doesn't really sound that fast without something to compare it to. It's really hard to hum a melody that's 16th notes at 250bpm. Case in point: everyone can hum the first ten notes of the final solo in Guns 'n Roses' "November Rain," but after that it just goes into widdly drivel in B minor, which is great as an effect, but not so catchy.

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In my opinion, you might be sort of putting the cart before the horse here. I have a musical idea first, then think of the technique I'd need afterwards. I think "hmm, the lead needs to be busy here, then come out with a long high C when the rhythm section kicks in with a more interesting groove," and then wonder how to get that effect, rather than thinking "I need to sweep, where can I sweep?"

 

[Aspiringmaestro]

When you're listening to a track can you imagine what you want your solo to sound like?

 

[Solodini]

If you don't know how to use a technique musically, I'd say you don't have enough theory.

Not necessarily correct. Not enough APPLICATION of theory. Same problem. There are plenty of technique resources and plenty of theory resources but still plenty of people without a musical personality. Technique comes from necessity to achieve something. Take a look at a technique and think about what it is used FOR. What can that technique help you to achieve which is otherwise more difficult? Start LISTENING. Not even, necessarily, analysing. Just listening and taking in music to help you to learn what you want to play or sound like or even to know what you DON'T want to play or sound like. Process of elimination is surprisingly important.

For practice, write some chord progressions. It could be the hilariously generic and simple I IV V or I V vi IV, or the horrific madness of Coltrane's substitutions, or even a twelve-bar blues. You know how to solo over a chord progression, right? If you see Am7 in your chord progression, you should know an A minor sweep pattern you can throw in. Or rather, you should know the notes of the chord, and if you want to go fast, use your sweep pattern. Try transitioning between fast and slow. Some long screeching high notes, and then some meedley-meedley sweeps.

Then try transitioning between chords. Can you start on the fourth beat of a bar, go up on an A minor pattern and come down on the first beat of the next bar on a G major? If you can do that for any chord progression, then you're well on your way to using technique in a musical way.

...and you don't need to, necessarily, start on the root. Choose a nearby note from the arpeggio and use that to connect things. This is where analysis comes in handy. Take a melody, look at what notes are tones of the current chord, which are subverting that chord, which are implying or leading into the next chord and their function in relation the resolution of the melody. Most melodies won't hold on a root note of a key until the end of a passage/section of the song. That could be half way through the verse but still a transition/repeat point of a passage.

The most important thing of course is that fast is not good. Good is not fast. Good is good, and fast doesn't really sound that fast without something to compare it to.

And the best fast guys don't generally sound that fast, because it fits as a texture and an overall element of the piece of music, not just showing off. They're applying their technique to a musical goal.

It's really hard to hum a melody that's 16th notes at 250bpm. Case in point: everyone can hum the first ten notes of the final solo in Guns 'n Roses' "November Rain," but after that it just goes into widdly drivel in B minor, which is great as an effect, but not so catchy.

Agreed. Try using your ability to play fast to add inflections, leading ideas/grace notes, imitations of an idea as texture

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In my opinion, you might be sort of putting the cart before the horse here. I have a musical idea first, then think of the technique I'd need afterwards. I think "hmm, the lead needs to be busy here, then come out with a long high C when the rhythm section kicks in with a more interesting groove," and then wonder how to get that effect, rather than thinking "I need to sweep, where can I sweep?"[/QUOTE]

Key point. I have nothing to add to that.


Listen to music of different styles and try to find something you like. You might hear a flam followed by a crash in a drum part which you quite like and decide that sweeping over a couple of wee mutes, followed by a couple of notes around G2 would give a similar sort of sound and effect.

Technique should serve a musical purpose. Try sitting at trial of Finale or Sibelius and writing based on notes, then learning to play that. See how technique facilitates you playing that or adds different sounds to those notes to make them stand out. Also try checking out my book from the link below.

I hope that helps you. I'll clarify on anything I wasn't clear enough about. PM me if you want any other help.

 

[Maniacal]

I think it's important to write phrases that force you to display technique... otherwise what is the point in learning to sweep pick/tap/alternate pick etc

If you do this enough, the technique will just become part of your playing and won't sound forced.

It's not often I think "hmmm a quintuplet 2nd inversion C major 7 arpeggio played with tapping would sound great over this A minor chord". It just doesn't happen. This is especially obvious when improvising, the chances are you will just jump to your comfort zone (A blues) and never use the technique, subdivision, scale, arpeggio stuff you drill for 3 hours a day.

You need to accustom your ears to how these techniques blended with musical ideas sound FIRST.

 

[SirMyghin]

I don't like the idea of 'forcing' technique, as in my mind, you learn the technique so that if your minds eye envisions the need for it you have it. The whole forcing situations to use a technique are the reason solos in metal, 99% of the time, blow.

The problem lies in while the exercise (or 'solo') is impressive to watch, by and large it is very boring to listen to. So you need to trick your audience into watching in awe, opposed to listening closely. The flurry of less than ideal content helps with this as it is relatively distracting.

Forcing can help learn what works and doesn't, but by and large most tunes don't 'need' the pyrotechnics, and rarely do they benefit from it.

So my advice, if you want to use technique musically is remember to place the musicality first, and only bring out the guns if they are required for the vision. Don't worry about anything but the soundscape, and let it guide you. Resist any urge you feel to blast out pyrotechnics to boost your ego alone and everything will come out much better sounding.

 

[texshred777]

It sounds like you may have spent a little too much time doing technique exercises and memorizing scale/mode shapes. I've seen countless guitarists who can shred chromatic/scalar picking exercises but seem to lose it when it comes to actually playing music.

When I write a solo it starts with an idea. It may be a vocal line, chord tones, or just two notes. I use whatever technique gives me whatever sound I'm looking for. Technique is just a tool to create musical phrases. Musical phrases are not excuses to bust a technical nut.

The only time I force myself to use a given technique is if I'm learning something new. In that case I force myself to experiment like crazy with that technique until I get comfortable with it.

 

[ARKhaven6505]

I'm no guitar virtuoso or theory genius, but I do know that I have spent quite a bit of time playing along with backing tracks and that has helped me to improve my soloing. I think the most important thing is to have the ability to play with the track instead of on top of it.

I feel that a simple solo that helps to further convey the message of the backing track is usually better than a bunch of widdly diddly on top of some simple music.

 

[JStraitiff]

Whats the point of learning technique if you cant apply it musically? I mean how could you even REALLY learn it if you have no application to practice. I can only assume you just practiced sweeping different chord shapes and playing randomness with legato or whatever picking techniques you learned. You obviously didnt learn enough theory if you cant figure out how to work it in as you would know that arpeggios are just separated chords and therefore you can solo using them just by playing chords that are in key.

That would be the next step.

 

[justreleased09]

I understand the theory behind it. I am asking how best to practice application. When I am improvising, it's hard for me to through the fast stuff in EFfECTIVELY, and have it sound good within a phrase.

 

[texshred777]

In that case just practice improvising. Acquire or compose tracks you can improvise to. The only thing that will help you with phrasing is to practice phrasing. Get a drum machine and go to town working on melodies.

Don't fall into a habit of every time you sit down to practice you find yourself wanking without direction. You should always wank in a specific direction..

 

[Mr. Big Noodles]

1. Learn to voice lead.
2. Voice lead.

 

[Aspiringmaestro]

I understand the theory behind it. I am asking how best to practice application. When I am improvising, it's hard for me to through the fast stuff in EFfECTIVELY, and have it sound good within a phrase.

I think I've got some ideas that will help you, but it will require some conversation. So, if you want some help, send me a PM, and if you find my advice useful then we can start a thread about how you learned to apply techniques to actual music.

 

[gandalf]

I believe that first of all its a matter of enjoying the sound of fast guitar in a solo. Personally I enjoy quite a lot of fast passages in a solo. For example fast alternate picking usually takes a lot of maintenance so its not normally something you pull out here and there. I do think that if people spend a lot of time practicing fast stuff they usually also use it a lot. And easy way to incorporate it is to just learn to play fast scales because if you improvise then you will use the scales as a basis and then at any point you can speed it up. If you think that the fast stuff should be a small procentage of a solo then Another day by Dream Theater is a good example. But I know John Petrucci spends a lot of time rehearsing technique