Vader 2x15 vs 4x12 for 8 string guitar

[Peteus]

I have read a bit about vader cabs and I like the tones they give and I am very tempted however I am a bit torn between the 2x15 and the 4x12. Also before someone lords into this thread and states that vaders are shit for recording I know this is for live uses!!!
So I have my guitar tuned prety low from F# to anything lower maybe a Eb or a D (I know I am mad) and the 2x15 looks closer to my fequency range however how does it compair to the 4x12?
So does anybody have experience with super low tunings and vader cabs, or a large frequency range speaker cab with low tuned/8 string guitars and how do they sound through the instrument?

 

[Krucifixtion]

Other guitarist in my band has a Vader 4x12 and it sounds great with my 8 string. I have tried it with his Dual Rectifier and my ENGL Invader and sometimes I tune drop Eb and the 4x12 holds the clarity of the low end perfectly. I honestly wouldn't get the 2x15 if thats the only cab you are gonna be running. It would be fine if you were also running a 4x12, because honestly you also need more of that midrange high end that a 4x12 is gonna push. If I had to just choose one or the other I would say just get the 4x12.

I don't know why people keep saying they sound like shit for recording. My band has recorded with them and they sound good. There are also a lot of other bands that have used them on records I am pretty sure and they sound good to me. I mean I might consider mixing different amps and cabs, because I like having different tones, but I feel like a lot of that is just some bad rumor people tend to spread who think Vader cabs are shitty.

 

[Ostia Man]

^
what he said

 

[Soopahmahn]

4x12.

 

[TemjinStrife]

That Vader 2x15 has way too little internal volume for its drivers, so it sounds like a woofy indistinct mess of low mid mud.

Get the 4x12. Speaker size is not generally in any way related to tone anyways.

 

[AlexWadeWC]

That Vader 2x15 has way too little internal volume for its drivers, so it sounds like a woofy indistinct mess of low mid mud.

Get the 4x12. Speaker size is not generally in any way related to tone anyways.

owned a 4x12 and 2x15 at the same time and can attest to this, it has way too little internal volume. I had to run two heads and run the 2x15 head way louder for it to sound right. It's because the cab is 600 watts handling and a normal tube head does not push anywhere remotely close to that.

 

[Krucifixtion]

owned a 4x12 and 2x15 at the same time and can attest to this, it has way too little internal volume. I had to run two heads and run the 2x15 head way louder for it to sound right. It's because the cab is 600 watts handling and a normal tube head does not push anywhere remotely close to that.

Hey Alex I like Vader cabs and Mesa's too, but I know you guys used to use Vader and switched to Mesa. Was it cause of a good endorsement or do you prefer the Mesa? I ask cause right now I run my friends old Mesa oversized recto slant cab, but I feel like I like his Vader better. Not trying to start a whole different thread here, but just curious cause you have used both.

 

[Crucified]

if you are using a single cab, get the 4x12, if you are using 2, the 2x15 is a good addition but i would never use one on it's own. Contrary to what others have found in this thread, if you eq your amp properly for the cab, you will find a nice balance of lows and highs and a natural mid scoop from the cab itself. I tended to boost the crap of of my mids and run the lows and highs a little lower than i normally would.

 

[7slinger]

my experience when playing both of them side by side was that the 4x12 could handle all the low end you could throw at it, but still sounded like a guitar cab. the 2x15 sounded scooped, obviously handled the low end with ease, but by itself did not sound as good as the 4x12. mind you this little demo was not done with tunings anywhere near as low as what you are talking about

 

[Rook]

If you're using overdrive (which you presumably are), you get so much compression, and such lower power ratings that guitar heads don't put out lower frequencies and particularly high intensities.

Basically, you'd be using speakers for a lower frequency response than your head will put out, all the sub bass frequencies get lost in the preamp section of amps.

Test it, plug a bass into a guitar head then into a bass cab, and as soon as you turn on the overdrive you just get a very low guitar sound, it doesn't sound like a distorted bass. Due to the amount of voltage that goes across class A/B power sections in guitar heads, all the sub bass gets trimmed off anyway.

Vader 412 for sure, 215 would be silly, and it'd have to be about the size of an Ampeg 810 to kick out some serious lows and take it from me, you don't wanna carry that round.

 

[Vstro]

That Vader 2x15 has way too little internal volume for its drivers, so it sounds like a woofy indistinct mess of low mid mud.

Get the 4x12. Speaker size is not generally in any way related to tone anyways.

 

[Rick]

Scott Hull of Pig Destroyer uses an 8 string Ibanez with Vaders and it seems to work for him pretty well.

 

[Peteus]

Sound like 4x12 is exactally what I want cheer

 

[AlexWadeWC]

Hey Alex I like Vader cabs and Mesa's too, but I know you guys used to use Vader and switched to Mesa. Was it cause of a good endorsement or do you prefer the Mesa? I ask cause right now I run my friends old Mesa oversized recto slant cab, but I feel like I like his Vader better. Not trying to start a whole different thread here, but just curious cause you have used both.

Well i feel like my taste for tone has changed over the years. I used to run my 5150 with the bass on 9, mids on 4, and treble on 6 and presence on 8 with a Vader cab 4 years ago, now I run pretty much everything on 6 with a Mesa cab.

I don't think the Vader cabs are "bad" per say, but yeah we got the Mesa endorsement so I was able to get a Mesa cab for the same price as a Vader cab, and a Mesa cab is obviously built leaps and BOUNDS better than a Vader. So I took construction into consideration as well not just tone.

In the end it just depends on what kind of tone you are going for, if you are looking for super brutal death chuggy tone then go Vader, if you're looking for a still heavy yet well rounded for many styles tone then go Mesa. My taste for tone just matured over the years and I stopped trying to having the "heaviest tone ever" and just went for a tone that sounded aggressive and sat well in the mix of our band.

Hope that helps!

 

[Larrikin666]

a Mesa cab is obviously built leaps and BOUNDS better than a Vader.

I couldn't disagree more about that. I'd be willing to throw another Vader down a flight of stairs without worrying about a thing. A Mesa wouldn't be able to live through that same disaster.

 

[Stealthdjentstic]

Well he doesn't want to Los his endorsement, he can't just talk a out his love for baser and not mention Mesa

 

[Hellhound]

Well he doesn't want to Los his endorsement, he can't just talk a out his love for baser and not mention Mesa

Being an endorser doesn't mean to be a slave or being a portable salesman. Of course a signature model endorser's deal is different and couldn't comment any bad. But a regular endorsement deal means you just have the rights to purchase products with a discount over full price and sometimes the company provides backline for tours and big fests. Then you have to use the company's products on stage within the period of time your deal exists. That's all... So i don't think Alex is defending Mesa cabs blindly.

 

[warlock7strEMG]

you dont want 15's for your primary cab, they are too scooped and hollow sounding alone to carry and do justice to the frequencies needed for guitar. a Vader 4x12 is what u want, no doubt. for live use they handle low tuning very nicely and keep the low frequencies together without ever sounding muddy or loose. i will say though, they are a little too dark for my tastes. i find having an amp or cab that has a little brightness to it does low tuning a favor in helping it stay clear and tight, almost as if the brightness helps balance out the low frequencies of low tunings. i guess thats why i prefer V30 loaded cabs. even in darker sounding cabs like Mesa and Orange they still have a certain brightness in the midrange that i dig, if that makes any sense

 

[TemjinStrife]

^ Speaker size =/= tonal qualities. All things being equal, the only difference speaker size makes is in dispersion and displacement.

 

[Kali Yuga]

I couldn't disagree more about that. I'd be willing to throw another Vader down a flight of stairs without worrying about a thing. A Mesa wouldn't be able to live through that same disaster.

Mesa Cabinets are undoubtedly more solid in structure than Vader, and I wouldn't worry too much if either one took a fall down some stairs, but when it comes down to physical build, I'm going to put money on the Mesa. I play Vader Cabinets exclusively lately, because unlike Alex, I still want that "heaviest tone ever" and doubt that's ever going to change. I converted from Mesa.