Vai impressed

[tribalfusion]

Just because some fusion guys (some of whom known for being uptight and unfriendly) think something is unhip doesn't make it unhip. Given that the general response to that video around the net is "that's awesome" and "they're both having so much fun", most people seem to find it, dare I say, "hip".

You know what's unhip? When you start to quantify what a "real musician" is. Now that's a rabbit hole that leads nowhere.

So when the larger number of people no matter how qualified say something is hip (like say with any big pop artist) it's hip. Katy Perry or Kanye West is therefore hipper than every artist discussed on this board put together.


Got it. What an edifying new concept!



We will have to agree to disagree as well. Slavishly imitating someone when you have spent tons of hours on your instrument is for me and others very unhip and a little sad when it goes long past the stage of student learning how to approach the instrument or the genre.

The fact that a primarily metal board would find this so hard to grasp is not terribly surprising and as I mentioned above, confirms what I postulated.

 

[Noxon]

The fact that a primarily metal board would find this so hard to grasp is not terribly surprising and as I mentioned above, confirms what I postulated.

Then why bother trying to elucidate for us plebeian metal players? We will be too busy ripping off other players and breathing with our mouths open...

 

[tribalfusion]

The level of pretentiousness here is astounding. Most guitar players proudly wear their influences on their sleeve. If I ever jammed with James Hetfield, should I ditch my EMGs and refuse to down pick? This is just a video of a guy jamming with an idol of his and doing some hero worship (and doing it very well). Every guitarist is a sum of their influences. I find it impossible to believe that you've never appropriated a lick, tone, riff, technique...

The level of confusion here is impressive. I stated several times there is a difference between slavishly imitating (what you even call "hero worship") and being influenced by someone.

I'll say it once more though clearly you are not listening: we are all influenced by people who have preceded us.

There is however a world of difference between slavishly playing idiosyncratic passages, note choices and physical tics which are directly traceable to one person and developing your own way of approaching music coming out of an influence or area, and one hopes combining it with other things including your own intuition at some point.

That this seems pretentious to you is not surprising and again confirms the thesis that this is not really that significant to so many people who are primarily metal based where technique is still such a big draw.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

So when the larger number of people no matter how qualified say something is hip (like say with any big pop artist) it's hip. Katy Perry or Kanye West is therefore hipper than every artist discussed on this board put together.


Got it. What an edifying new concept!

That's kind of how popularity, and determining what's "hip" works.

If I'm the only person who thinks wearing purple boots and leopard print out of the house is hip, guess what, it's probably not hip.

I don't know why that's such a difficult concept.

Maybe you don't know what the word means:

Hip:
1. Keenly aware of or knowledgeable about the latest trends or developments.
2. Very fashionable or stylish.

We will have to agree to disagree as well. Slavishly imitating someone when you have spent tons of hours on your instrument is for me and others very unhip and a little sad when it goes long past the stage of student learning how to approach the instrument or the genre.

The fact that a primarily metal board would find this so hard to grasp is not terribly surprising and as I mentioned above, confirms what I postulated.

And this is why you're not being taken seriously. You have a very unhip opinion and choose to be a smug dick while justifying it at people who really don't care.

You fusion guys crack me up.

 

[tribalfusion]

Then why bother trying to elucidate for us plebeian metal players? We will be too busy ripping off other players and breathing with our mouths open...

As with any message board, it's not only those who respond who read the posts and give them thought and as with any argument, sometimes the points resonate months or years later sometimes without the people even realizing it is happening.

In any case, there is certainly metal I do like and this forum is a great resource (primarily) for that.

Rock on...

 

[Kwert]

The level of confusion here is impressive. I stated several times there is a difference between slavishly imitating (what you even call "hero worship") and being influenced by someone.

I'll say it once more though clearly you are not listening: we are all influenced by people who have preceded us.

There is however a world of difference between slavishly playing idiosyncratic passages, note choices and physical tics which are directly traceable to one person and developing your own way of approaching music coming out of an influence or area, and one hopes combining it with other things including your own intuition at some point.

That this seems pretentious to you is not surprising and again confirms the thesis that this is not really that significant to so many people who are primarily metal based where technique is still such a big draw.

Maybe in the context of a show/gig this might be looked down upon, but this is a jam session at a clinic - let him have some fun.

 

[stevexc]

The level of confusion here is impressive. I stated several times there is a difference between slavishly imitating (what you even call "hero worship") and being influenced by someone.

I'll say it once more though clearly you are not listening: we are all influenced by people who have preceded us.

There is however a world of difference between slavishly playing idiosyncratic passages, note choices and physical tics which are directly traceable to one person and developing your own way of approaching music coming out of an influence or area, and one hopes combining it with other things including your own intuition at some point.

That this seems pretentious to you is not surprising and again confirms the thesis that this is not really that significant to so many people who are primarily metal based where technique is still such a big draw.

You're literally the only person in here thinking that what this guy played is "unhip" (which hasn't been "hip" to say in decades). And literally the only person whose opinion MATTERS - something you have no ability to make assumptions on - is Steve Vai's. And from the only account of his opinion - the video in the OP - Steve liked it.

 

[tribalfusion]

That's kind of how popularity, and determining what's "hip" works.

If I'm the only person who thinks wearing purple boots and leopard print out of the house is hip, guess what, it's probably not hip.

I don't know why that's such a difficult concept.

Maybe you don't know what the word means:

Hip:
1. Keenly aware of or knowledgeable about the latest trends or developments.
2. Very fashionable or stylish.




And this is why you're not being taken seriously. You have a very unhip opinion and choose to be a smug dick while justifying it at people who really don't care.

You fusion guys crack me up.

A lot of confusion here.

Just for starters, what is "hip" is not simply what the larger number enjoys, often it's quite the opposite in fact depending on which audience we have in mind.

Justin Bieber is not "hipper" than Allan Holdsworth or Meshuggah to anyone who understands even a little bit about music but it's true that he is preferred by larger numbers.

Taking up your example, fashion is rather the same; what the cognoscenti find "hip" like say John Galliano or Marc Jacobs is rather different from shoppers who may have a very different and less elaborate sense of aesthetics.

I'm sure you're aware of this usage and see how it undermines what you are clumsily trying to say.

As for not being taken seriously, the obvious bruised feelings from several posters in here one after the other belies your statement.

That a primarily metal crowd thinks that a player who put his time in slavishly imitating someone's playing RIGHT in front of him is cool without the need for any caveats, speaks volumes.

The other clip from that same performance of Andre Nieri playing with Vai is a much better example of someone who is obviously influenced by Vai as well as others and shows some of his own preferences, also in a metal style.

 

[ArtDecade]

That a primarily metal crowd thinks that a player who put his time in slavishly imitating someone's playing RIGHT in front of him is cool without the need for any caveats, speaks volumes.

That a pretentious fusion fan doesn't appreciate that even Vai himself is impressed speaks volumes.

 

[mrjones_ass]

Thanks for posting the video. Really fun to see Vais reaction!

 

[AxeHappy]

I've played with Alex Dean and Lorne Lofsky, as well an in orchestras (on both violin and trombone) and I have grades in theory from the Royal Conservatory of Music. I have taught Jazz guitar at the Kincardine Summer Music Festival amongst other fantastic musicians.

I still think you're full of .....

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

Idea for a new drinking game: Read this thread and take a drink every time you see the word "slavishly." Careful not to overdo it, though. You have to know your limits.

 

[vansinn]

Normally, I don't give a rat's a$$ about duels, but these ones are pure entertainment!

...Justin Bieber is not "hipper" than...

Justin Bieber is.. hip? - does he even djent..?
Now I know I'm likely out of touch with reality..
Time for the 50/50 Prozak/Valium mix..

 

[The Mirror]

Seriously, what the hell happened on the last 1,5 pages of this thread?

 

[DLG]

lol @ the fusion guy getting angry

not everyone has aspirations to reach new plateaus in guitar playing buddy.

Some people just do it for fun.

This dude loves playing like Vai, he finds joy in it.

So he plays like Vai and he's happy.

The End.

 

[Nats]

in an interview, Vai says that the hardest part of that was to pretend to not know how to play the lick lol


the guitar player in my band back in the day used to play that song all the time, it got really anoying lol

I think I also remember reading in an interview that a surprisingly high number of people think he really got outplayed by the Karate Kid

 

[Curt]

The fact that I like Henderson or other players' styles and might render hommage to them in my user name says nothing about how I play and how I play or played with them.

Those guys all have influences, as does anyone and as do I.

But there is a tremendous difference between influences and what we are discussing.

Vai doesn't just "sound like Zappa and Satriani" and if you can't hear that, then I understand that this conversation can go nowhere and we can drop it.

There's a huge difference between "influenced by" and "slavishly imitating"

In metal, where people are still more easily impressed by technique, this sort of thing will get more positive reactions than it would with a jazz or fusion crowd (among other musical styles) where immediately what I just said would be a very commonly shared sentiment.

Ironically, your responses are the perfect confirmation of my thesis.

And your responses are the perfect confirmation of my thesis. That being that fusion and jazz players are pretentious and have a superiority complex.

 

[stevexc]

Seriously, what the hell happened on the last 1,5 pages of this thread?

I'm just upset that thanks to that... "debate"... I'll never learn what FRETPICK was on about.

Idea for a new drinking game: Read this thread and take a drink every time you see the word "slavishly." Careful not to overdo it, though. You have to know your limits.

Hard mode: Drink every time you see the word "unhip". Finish your drink when you see just "hip", though!

 

[Addison90]

In the context of a show/gig this might be looked down upon, but this is a jam session at a clinic - let him have some fun.

Spot on comment.

 

[Rylynn]

Nailing other people's playing styles can turn you into one monster of a player-



That dude could have gotten off the stage and went to his gig sitting first chair in the flute section of the local symphony for all ya know.

Except that Guthrie Govan "steals" from LOTS of guitar players (so does Vai, Petrucci, Tosin Abasi, Henderson, and the others).

To me there are huge differences between "influenced by lots of people" vs. "hugely influenced by one person".

Don't get me wrong, the video OP posted is really fun and entertaining to watch, but I think your comparison is a bit unfair.