Vik Drama: Round 3

[Chokey Chicken]

WHO CARES!!!?!?! This is literally my whole point. Everyone loves when someone expresses their love for the gay community, Vik is doing the opposite and getting chastised. He is entitled to hate/love/feel indifferent, just as you are entitled to ignore.

Be an adult, wipe your bum, and let it go. There's no need for a press release on everyones opinions. This honestly seems beyond silly to me.

Yeah, and why should I help make the guys life easier by giving him my money, when people like him are directly responsible for making an important part of my life very difficult? Why can't you understand that he's free to state his point, but so is everyone else? He's allowed to not like gays, just as people who support gays are free to support him or not, which is what everyone is doing.

 

[ItWillDo]

Most of the language on this forum has been more civil than wishing him to die in a fire. I think you'd see a lot of us expressing that those responses are also wrong and not called for.

Also, I'm willing to bet you're completely wrong.

I hope you do realize this forum is an exception and only marks up a meager percentage of the community that came into contact with this. If you took a glance at the some of the original Facebook-posts than it might change your mind.

I even remember someone in this thread posting he wished that 'Vik would trip and land into a gay guy's asshole'. I don't even know who this is most degrading to.

 

[Necris]

WHO CARES!!!?!?! This is literally my whole point. Everyone loves when someone expresses their love for the gay community, Vik is doing the opposite and getting chastised. He is entitled to hate/love/feel indifferent, just as you are entitled to ignore.

Be an adult, wipe your bum, and let it go. There's no need for a press release on everyones opinions. This honestly seems beyond silly to me.

I am entitled to hate/love/feel indifferent towards his opinion. I'm entitled to voice my opinion about his opinion. I've chosen not to ignore. So have many other people.

Maybe you should "be an adult, wipe your bum, and let it go" if you don't like that some people do care.

 

[asher]

I hope you do realize this forum is an exception and only marks up a meager percentage of the community that came into contact with this. If you took a glance at the some of the original Facebook-posts than it might change your mind.

I even remember someone on this page posting he wished that 'Vik would trip and land into a gay guy's asshole'. I don't even know who this is most degrading to.

Sure. But you're arguing with us, not them here

And just because people are taking the responses too far doesn't invalidate the core position's that Vik's comments are wrong.

 

[molsoncanadian]

People who actually give a damn about how other people are treated.

Again, I am not by ANY means trying to defend him, I really need to stress that. I dont like what he said either. And I agree it's disheartning that he has those views. However, I'm not personally going to say "HEY, you dont think the way I do? You dont have the same views? HEY EVERYBODY, VIK DOESNT LIKE GAY PEOPLE. OMG CALL METALSUCKS.NET FOR AN INTERVIEW!!! THIS IS SOME NEWS!!!!!

 

[fps]

It's not like that, dissenters. It's not just "everyone has their opinion, they state them, and that's that." Some people care about what people have to say, and about issues, and about making the world better by showing this kinda crap just is NOT going to be put up with. If you're not looking to have a sexual relationship with someone, then why on earth is their sexuality an issue? Exactly.

 

[Electric Wizard]

I just have an issue with all the "respect" people give Nolly and Bulb, when really it just shows how juvenile the both of you really are. I can always understand people bringing finish flaws to light, and keeping tabs on respectable luthiers ect, however, to drop an endorsement as a result of someones ideals? He simply doesnt have the same view as you.

I was going to stay out of the Vik fracas entirely but, welp...

That is the dumbest shit I have ever heard.

Misha and Adam were nothing but civil and tasteful in their approach to the situation. Their messages were professional and frank, and I really can't see how you could argue otherwise.

Your argument that they are taking food out of Vik's kids' mouths works the other way. As endorsees, they are representing Vik's brand, and standing by while Vik hates on gay people can be very easily taken as a tacit approval. It's in their interest economically to distance themselves, let alone the moral issues. Vik is doing the same damage to them as your logic says they've done to him.

I don't see why an endorser needs any reason to stop being a spokesperson. They're lending their name to something, and they're entitled to choose to stop. It's Vik's responsibility to pay the bills, not Misha or Nolly's to ensure that he can. If Nike went under for some scandal, you wouldn't blame Michael Jordan...

At any rate, I'm sure I've been ninja'd a bunch of times over by now. Couldn't resist though.

 

[stevexc]

Again, I am not by ANY means trying to defend him, I really need to stress that. I dont like what he said either. And I agree it's disheartning that he has those views. However, I'm not personally going to say "HEY, you dont think the way I do? You dont have the same views? HEY EVERYBODY, VIK DOESNT LIKE GAY PEOPLE. OMG CALL METALSUCKS.NET FOR AN INTERVIEW!!! THIS IS SOME NEWS!!!!!

And of course, I assume you hold the same position regarding the Donald Sterling news coverage?

 

[Winspear]

As they say - "If you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all". It really is that simple. Especially if you are running a business

 

[ForThisGift]

In closing I have to reiterate that I certainly dont respect the way Vik went about this at all, however, he is simply stating his opinion. Some people like red paint, others like blue. If more people shared Vik's opinion this would never have blown up the way it did. Something to think about.

Just my .02

Well no offense, but your .02 is falling a bit below market value. The spreading of intolerance being equated to a preference of color is about the worst distortion of logical thinking I have seen in this entire thread.

His opinion is unpopular to say the least... But if it were just that, an opinion, it would be one thing. But he's not discussing what color to paint his living room, he's helping to perpetuate hatred of a group of people that he doesn't "judge" or "hate," but is still somehow able to "disapprove" of and not "like."

If you are still trying to defend someone who has put such solid work into ruining their own public image by revealing their HATEFUL beliefs then you have simply missed the core elements of this debate. Sorry you couldn't keep up, but you should probably just sit this one out.

I don't really want to go into too much detail as to why Bulb and Nolly did the right thing in making sure that they were no longer associated with someone who holds beliefs that are clearly so contrary to their own. They are public figures at this point, with fans that know they were involved with Vik. While I don't fully agree, inaction (or the perception of inaction if they were to privately terminate any and all partnerships/obligations) on their part could have been viewed as at best apathy and at worst compliance.

Kudos to them for using their platforms to take a stand on the issue.

Here is your .02 back bruh...

 

[ItWillDo]

Sure. But you're arguing with us, not them here

And just because people are taking the responses too far doesn't invalidate the core position's that Vik's comments are wrong.

I've never stated to only be talking about SSO which is clear from my previous statements; This forum is an exception. And to summarize the point I've tried making before, and poor molsoncanadian is trying to make as well, please allow me to quote Alain de Botton:

“Every society has notions of what one should believe, how one should behave, and how one should look like in order to avoid unpopularity.

“These social conventions are formulated in legal codes and religious doctrines, but also in a vast body of social judgements which we take for granted, which dictates what we wear, who we respect, how we lead our lives, and how we should look. We refrain from questioning the status quo, because we associate what is popular with what is right.”

Every society has it's own ideas/beliefs which they consider to be 'right'. It's only through open discussion in a rational way that all involved parties might come to a resolution; not through harassment, prosecution, shaming and scapegoating.

 

[molsoncanadian]

I was going to stay out of the Vik fracas entirely but, welp...

That is the dumbest shit I have ever heard.

Misha and Adam were nothing but civil and tasteful in their approach to the situation. Their messages were professional and frank, and I really can't see how you could argue otherwise.

Your argument that they are taking food out of Vik's kids' mouths works the other way. As endorsees, they are representing Vik's brand, and standing by while Vik hates on gay people can be very easily taken as a tacit approval. It's in their interest economically to distance themselves, let alone the moral issues. Vik is doing the same damage to them as your logic says they've done to him.

I don't see why an endorser needs any reason to stop being a spokesperson. They're lending their name to something, and they're entitled to chose to stop. It's Vik's responsibility to pay the bills, not Misha or Nolly's to ensure that he can. If Nike went under for some scandal, you wouldn't blame Michael Jordan...

At any rate, I'm sure I've been ninja'd a bunch of times over by now. Couldn't resist though.

That's a sound a respectable point. However, they could have just dropped the endorsement. There was no need to make a huge wave about it. I respect all opinions (Or I try to understand them anyways) and Vik doesnt like homosexuality. I am older myself and I understand that we aren't completely out of that demographic that is polarized by the gay movement. People might disagree with homosexuality, and thats fine. Not everyone is on board with the idea. When people say they have issues with it, I dont grab a loud speaker and stand on the corner of city hall and dispense my distaste for said person. I feel that, in a way is what happened.

 

[JoshuaVonFlash]

Again, I am not by ANY means trying to defend him, I really need to stress that. I dont like what he said either. And I agree it's disheartning that he has those views. However, I'm not personally going to say "HEY, you dont think the way I do? You dont have the same views? HEY EVERYBODY, VIK DOESNT LIKE GAY PEOPLE. OMG CALL METALSUCKS.NET FOR AN INTERVIEW!!! THIS IS SOME NEWS!!!!!

But that's how you would react not everyone else. Most of us have chosen to exercise our right to free speech and voice our opinion on what he said. I'm not sure what your trying to get across other than how you think everyone should react to what he said. To extinguish (or largely extinguish) idiotic views like this, voices need to be heard and show that we do not condone the hateful and ignorant views (Vik and many others) spew from their mouths.

 

[asher]

Again, I am not by ANY means trying to defend him, I really need to stress that. I dont like what he said either. And I agree it's disheartning that he has those views. However, I'm not personally going to say "HEY, you dont think the way I do? You dont have the same views? HEY EVERYBODY, VIK DOESNT LIKE GAY PEOPLE. OMG CALL METALSUCKS.NET FOR AN INTERVIEW!!! THIS IS SOME NEWS!!!!!

Except what's going on is exactly how we shift conversation and over time shift thinking to be more accepting, understanding, and compassionate, when we demonstrate that this shit is not okay.

 

[Necris]

The reason metalsucks picked it up is likely because of Misha, Nolly and Per Nilssons involvement, Misha was a contributor to metalsucks at one point, he's in a metal band with Nolly. Per is a well known metal guitarist.

Metalsucks reports on metal related news, pageviews/ad revenue are a source of income for them. Of course they'll jump on this story, it's tied to metal and it's blowing up. Other metal sites have followed suit.

Unless you would like to try your hand at arguing he wasn't responsible for what he chose to post, it's Vik who is responsible for what he said and thus whatever consequences that arise, that includes internet backlash even if that backlash contains idiots.

Plenty of us here have voiced our disapproval of those people who have essentially seen a chance to throw stones and taken it.

 

[Winspear]

That's a sound a respectable point. However, they could have just dropped the endorsement. There was no need to make a huge wave about it.

The wave was only huge because they are popular. They made very reasonable, professional statements.
If they had 'just dropped the endorsement' - how would anyone know?
I myself said in another thread that I had been wondering for months how Nolly felt about the already ongoing bad business practice and unprofessional behavior being shown by ViK. If a statement was not put out - how would I (or anyone else) have any idea what his feelings are? I would have been left wondering "Is he in favour of this, too?"

 

[Edika]

As someone who wouldn't be able to afford his guitars when they were more reasonably priced I can't say he would have my business but I would have liked to think that at some point I could be able to have that luxury. As someone that show an unexplained jump in price when there was a modicum of success to the brand I saw that dream slip away even further. As someone seeing the guy bypass people that paid in full to do runs, guitars in a week and focus his energy to other things than delivering to customers I started not quite feeling it anymore (not taking into account the health issues, that's another story). As someone that show him throw hissy fits over things he himself was multiple times guilty off, seeing him having his ego bloated and and cancelling orders because the clients dared complain about him not working on the instruments that are supposed to be his business I started to really have a sour taste in my mouth and thought if I am going to save money for a dream guitar I sure as well wouldn't want it to be saturated by dickishness however well made it is. As a cherry to this whole shit pie he proved what a dick he really is by his comments.

A person that clearly has no respect for his fellow man is destined to show it at some point. He is talented but not irreplacable and people don't usually like to be treated like shit when they are paying you loads of money. In the end he will not be the first person that started a business venture and failed and he has no one to blaim than himself. He will survive, people like him always do.

Whether the Periphery guys are immature or not for stating their opinions, I will not comment that they believe what they say as it is obvious they do. Any person with a modicum of intelligence would want to wash away any association with something as toxic as Vik guitars at the moment. They at least seem to understand the business side of the music industry, their place in it, how fragile reputation is as well as the fact that they are one of the bands that became famous from social media. They understand what it means to turn your hobby to a profession and would like to keep doing that.

So not only they are decent guys, but are mature and intelligent enough to know how to handle the situation.

 

[Ibanezsam4]

And of course, I assume you hold the same position regarding the Donald Sterling news coverage?

Sterling was known to have those viewpoints for three decades and the LA, sports, and national media did nothing to bring them to light because nobody cared about the sucky clippers... until they started winning.

the difference here is sterling said what he wanted to say during a private conversation and he was unknowingly taped; the man was a business man and had he known he was being taped probably would've kept it to himself. Vik put his thoughts out on social media.

the only reason this is a big deal is because he is a damn good builder.

 

[Electric Wizard]

That's a sound a respectable point. However, they could have just dropped the endorsement. There was no need to make a huge wave about it. I respect all opinions (Or I try to understand them anyways) and Vik doesnt like homosexuality. I am older myself and I understand that we aren't completely out of that demographic that is polarized by the gay movement. People might disagree with homosexuality, and thats fine. Not everyone is on board with the idea. When people say they have issues with it, I dont grab a loud speaker and stand on the corner of city hall and dispense my distaste for said person. I feel that, in a way is what happened.

Having seen some of your other posts, I agree that people have turned this into much more of a fiasco than it might have been. I wouldn't pin that on either of them entirely though. I don't see much of a choice other than to make some sort of statement, and as seen in the other Vik thread, even after Nolly did, people still accused him of letting Vik get away with things. So to just quietly drop the endorsement would probably open them up to lots of accusations.

As for MetalSucks and every other website making a big fuss about it, yeah I find some of that a bit over the top. I mean I think it's great that the metal community is so impassioned about the issue, but I also wonder how many people on those sites had even heard of Vik beforehand. After so much time spent on SSO, I can never tell if we're still just a weird minority or actually representative of popular opinion.

 

[molsoncanadian]

Except what's going on is exactly how we shift conversation and over time shift thinking to be more accepting, understanding, and compassionate, when we demonstrate that this shit is not okay.

I will make this my last post in this thread, as it seems some of my posts confused/poorly worded so on. I apologize to anyone I offended, and I agree 100% with the sentiments you express, I really do, it was my fault for not stressing that enough. I agree we should move forward in conversations that promote equality and understanding. I will leave it at that.

Cheers