Alex Kenivel
Stunt Guitar
I know people who are homophobes, and I know plenty of gay/les/bi people too. There are plenty of good people/assholes on both sides.
Vik Drama: Round 3
- Thread starter MikeH
- Start date
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broj15
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not sure what my avatar has to do with it (Efrim from GY!BE) other than I'm sure he's a supporter of "alternative lifestyles" (idk, all i know about his political beliefs is his disdain of Canadia's / Quebec's government.) I just think it's funny that anytime someone voices an opinion that goes against the grain there's always a million people lined up to berate them over it. Was it a dumb business decision? yes. Do I agree with him? certainly not. It just kills me that people think it's okay to be intolerant of homophobes and no ok to be intolerant of homosexuals when they're both just 2 sides of the same intolerant coin.
Wings of Obsidian
Banned
My little picture/flyer that I made to commemorate this occasion. Feel free to head on over to the Human Rights Organization, or feel free to hashtag #vikdontbeadick
Vik doesn't like headless guitars...so I'm assuming he doesn't like headless people.
And he doesn't like gay people...so I'm assuming he doesn't like gay guitars.
Vik doesn't like headless guitars...so I'm assuming he doesn't like headless people.
And he doesn't like gay people...so I'm assuming he doesn't like gay guitars.
Promit
Well-Known Member
They are absolutely not two sides of the same coin, and saying that they are reveals a very deep ignorance on your part.
ElysianGuitars
Well-Known Member
If you say something publicly you have to be prepared for the public to respond.
HeHasTheJazzHands
Well-Known Member
Necris
Bonitis.
No.
Those who won't tolerate homophobia are voicing disdain for a viewpoint and it's effect on a group of people.
Those who won't tolerate homosexuals are voicing hatred for a group of people.
Omura
Well-Known Member
So.. Buckle up, this might be a long one.
It even comes with a backstory. Yes it's going to be that long.
As a child, I had some pretty strong opinions.. On pretty much everything, I didn't have good arguments behind them always, and I was/an very stubborn. I wasn't about to back down from an argument. I made a pot of enemies then. People don't like arguing as a general rule. As I got older, my views on some things changed and I also learned not to argue. I learned not to bother voicing an opinion or trying to show someone what they did wrong. Because it would just turn into some pointless, totally de-railed arguement. Anyway, my opinion on gays and gay rights has always been that of: they're people, they like other people, that's fine. Legally I think they should be entitled to the exact same legal rights as a married couple. But as to whether or not it should be called marriage is sketchier. Marriage is something that is of a religious origin, and messing with religious views is just a good way to piss everyone off. As such I feel there should be a way to let gay people have those legal entitlements, in a way they will embrace and actually make use of, without calling it marriage. How to do that, I don't know. I do know that 'equal human rights' is an awful idea as a movement. It would imply that equal rights are to be given to murderers, rapists, pediphiles, incestual persons, those involved in beastiality, drug trafficking etc. basically it opens a can of worms where everyone gets to say 'but they get their rights, so you have to give me mine' which wouldn't end well. The whole fight is being staged in a 'you're wrong because my opinion is different slinging contest' where every poorly informed, biased, angry person with a keyboard can join in a fight that doesn't actually help anyone. It's like watching savages from both sides try to kill each other with plastic cutlery. Thing is, my wife has strong opinions on one side of this, some of which I'm board with, some in not, some is now part of my view, but her view hasn't changed from after I explained mine. Thing is, she gets so het-up about it all, just like everyone here is, they miss the part where everyone is just slipping into this place where eveything is just petty arguing. Social media is a terrible thing, as every random little opinion, joke, and happening that you upload turns into cannon-fodder for someone else. I haven't uploaded a status on there in over 6-months, because it won't do anything good except polarise the people I know one way or another.
At the end of the day: Vik said something a silly.
As a businessman, it was very silly. He should really keep his life an his business life separate. In person and on the web.
And at the same time, everyone on the web is now slinging shit at him, generally being equally petty. It's not a fight anymore, it's just small children quarrelling. If everyone in the world could act like civil, reasonable people. Keep themselves to themselves, and how some respect to others. There would be a lot less time wasted on crap like this, and a lot more progress in areas of the world an society that needs to happen. That's just my view. Sorry for the long post, I hope it made some sense, and I hope I managed to give a perspective on this without getting too involved.
It even comes with a backstory. Yes it's going to be that long.
As a child, I had some pretty strong opinions.. On pretty much everything, I didn't have good arguments behind them always, and I was/an very stubborn. I wasn't about to back down from an argument. I made a pot of enemies then. People don't like arguing as a general rule. As I got older, my views on some things changed and I also learned not to argue. I learned not to bother voicing an opinion or trying to show someone what they did wrong. Because it would just turn into some pointless, totally de-railed arguement. Anyway, my opinion on gays and gay rights has always been that of: they're people, they like other people, that's fine. Legally I think they should be entitled to the exact same legal rights as a married couple. But as to whether or not it should be called marriage is sketchier. Marriage is something that is of a religious origin, and messing with religious views is just a good way to piss everyone off. As such I feel there should be a way to let gay people have those legal entitlements, in a way they will embrace and actually make use of, without calling it marriage. How to do that, I don't know. I do know that 'equal human rights' is an awful idea as a movement. It would imply that equal rights are to be given to murderers, rapists, pediphiles, incestual persons, those involved in beastiality, drug trafficking etc. basically it opens a can of worms where everyone gets to say 'but they get their rights, so you have to give me mine' which wouldn't end well. The whole fight is being staged in a 'you're wrong because my opinion is different slinging contest' where every poorly informed, biased, angry person with a keyboard can join in a fight that doesn't actually help anyone. It's like watching savages from both sides try to kill each other with plastic cutlery. Thing is, my wife has strong opinions on one side of this, some of which I'm board with, some in not, some is now part of my view, but her view hasn't changed from after I explained mine. Thing is, she gets so het-up about it all, just like everyone here is, they miss the part where everyone is just slipping into this place where eveything is just petty arguing. Social media is a terrible thing, as every random little opinion, joke, and happening that you upload turns into cannon-fodder for someone else. I haven't uploaded a status on there in over 6-months, because it won't do anything good except polarise the people I know one way or another.
At the end of the day: Vik said something a silly.
As a businessman, it was very silly. He should really keep his life an his business life separate. In person and on the web.
And at the same time, everyone on the web is now slinging shit at him, generally being equally petty. It's not a fight anymore, it's just small children quarrelling. If everyone in the world could act like civil, reasonable people. Keep themselves to themselves, and how some respect to others. There would be a lot less time wasted on crap like this, and a lot more progress in areas of the world an society that needs to happen. That's just my view. Sorry for the long post, I hope it made some sense, and I hope I managed to give a perspective on this without getting too involved.
Chokey Chicken
mouth breather
Excuse me? Two sides of the same intolerance coin? That is by far one of the most foolish ....ing things I've ever heard. The difference is that "tolerating" gays harms not a god damned thing. Tolerating a bigot perpetuates hate and violence. People need to speak out against this shit. This is the kind of shit people get beaten and killed over. That is not something anyone should tolerate.
Your ignorant words are belched up just like somebody on the greener side of the privilege fence. Like someone who hasn't had to fear for their life just for loving someone. I guess I should have been more tolerant of my homophobic rapists, right? You can .... right off with your piss poor excuse for logic, you make me sick.
elq
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Watty
Naturally Cynical
Internet courtesy dictates you use, at the very least, some returns in that block of text.
That aside, equivocation over tolerance on both sides of the issue is bat shit insane. If you think that works, just wait for the pedophiles to crawl out of the woodwork saying that being intolerant of their sexuality and right to objectify children without the mental competency to know its not okay is just as bad as them doing it in the first place.
In our society (and business relations, as per this specific issue), you're free to say and do whatever you like within the confines of the law. What you are not free from is reprisal, whether verbal or transactional, that occurs as a result of said occurrence. It's like the Donald Sterling thing. I defend his right to say it and I certainly don't believe legal action should be taken against him, but I completely support the NBA for taking action to expel him from their private business venture for what he said. He's allowed to voice it, but expecting no backlash and whining when it happens is the height of ignorance.
Necris
Bonitis.
1) Marriage in a Church, yes. Marriage itself, no.
2.) It's amusing you mention bestiality. Because bestiality was still legal in some states while having sex with a person of the same gender could get you thrown in prison. Edit: It's still legal in 14 states, D.C. and various unincorporated territories like Guam .
As far as I'm aware possession of child pornography wasn't made a criminal offense in the entirety of the United States before that changed either.
(Forgive me if I'm not totally willing to google that one.
)Also, Murderers, Rapists, Pedophiles, those who engage in incest, drug traffickers, etc. Do have the same rights as any other person. Until they're caught.
Regarding murderers and those convicted of capital crimes that's one of the issues people have with the death penalty. Is there really any act heinous enough that by committing it a person has forfeited their right to life? It's a valid question without an easy answer.
I don't think anyone pushing for equal human rights has ever promoted the idea that one person has the right to infringe on another persons rights.
Grand Moff Tim
Some call me... Tim
Don't worry, guys. This will all blow over once Vik apologizes, which I'm sure he will. If there's anything Vik is known for, it's contrition and humilitaaAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA...
...hehehe. Heh.
Sorry. I couldn't do it.
...hehehe. Heh.
Sorry. I couldn't do it.
broj15
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I'm not gonna quote everyone that took offense to what I said because that would take up too much room, but let me elaborate on what I meant when I said
Vic hating on homosexuals isn't going to stop people from being homosexuals and people giving shit to Vic for his opinion isn't going to change it. in fact it will probably just fortify it further: "look at all these gays and gay-sympathizers giving me shit. I sure am glad I hate those gays and gay-sympathizers". It would honestly be better to have just let the comment pass. He was surely doing it to garner attention for himself and use his position in the community to further his views and he's been successful in doing that. Wether people are talking bad about him doesn't matter, because here we all are talking about him. And just to further clarify, I don't agree with his position. Shit, I was hit on by a gay guy not too long ago and just laughed it off because, according to him, I gave off that vibe
Edit: but as far as my side of the "privilege fence" is concerned, I'm sorry I was born a piece of CIS scum.
Vic hating on homosexuals isn't going to stop people from being homosexuals and people giving shit to Vic for his opinion isn't going to change it. in fact it will probably just fortify it further: "look at all these gays and gay-sympathizers giving me shit. I sure am glad I hate those gays and gay-sympathizers". It would honestly be better to have just let the comment pass. He was surely doing it to garner attention for himself and use his position in the community to further his views and he's been successful in doing that. Wether people are talking bad about him doesn't matter, because here we all are talking about him. And just to further clarify, I don't agree with his position. Shit, I was hit on by a gay guy not too long ago and just laughed it off because, according to him, I gave off that vibe
Edit: but as far as my side of the "privilege fence" is concerned, I'm sorry I was born a piece of CIS scum.
I'm just going to copy and paste my status from Facebook instead of typing out a long rant.
"I've tried several times to write something on how I feel about the recent controversy in the guitar world lately with Vik Kuletski of ViK guitars expressing his negative feelings towards gay people, and all I can say is that people come first. Not sexuality, not music, people.
If anything is standing in the way of you loving another human being, and telling them that they are your friend, someone you care about, someone who you will protect, you need to throw it away.
Don't buy ViK Guitars. I know how amazing those guitars are and how so many of us have wanted one since we first heard about them or played one but I beg you to remember this... That guitar will never be as important as sending a message to every gay person out there telling them that you support them, and telling Vik that it's not about who you love, it's about the fact that you DO love."
"I've tried several times to write something on how I feel about the recent controversy in the guitar world lately with Vik Kuletski of ViK guitars expressing his negative feelings towards gay people, and all I can say is that people come first. Not sexuality, not music, people.
If anything is standing in the way of you loving another human being, and telling them that they are your friend, someone you care about, someone who you will protect, you need to throw it away.
Don't buy ViK Guitars. I know how amazing those guitars are and how so many of us have wanted one since we first heard about them or played one but I beg you to remember this... That guitar will never be as important as sending a message to every gay person out there telling them that you support them, and telling Vik that it's not about who you love, it's about the fact that you DO love."
Not tolerating intolerance isn't intolerance.
Necris
Bonitis.
I'm going to assume you have no idea what Cis refers to (gender not sexuality), if you do what are you on about?
Jonathan20022
Engineer
Are you kidding me?
No sympathy.
