abandonist
Banned
I'm not sure you're accomplishing what you think you're accomplishing.
Vik Drama: Round 3
- Thread starter MikeH
- Start date
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Wings of Obsidian
Banned
Homophobia: the fear of being sexually involved with another individual of the same gender and perchance liking it.
^ Something tells me we need to bring Vik over here and throw him in prison in the USA for a day. Might change his viewpoints.
^ Something tells me we need to bring Vik over here and throw him in prison in the USA for a day. Might change his viewpoints.
Have any of You ever been in Eastern Europe?
Thing is, while Vik is dealing with people from different countries, he still lives in Belarus, right? And in Eastern Europe some countries like Czech Republic are quite liberal and tolerant. Some, like Poland - depends, in big cities it's getting there slowly, but still, there are places, where one can get a beating for being "different". And then there are countries like Belarus. He's not an island, trust me. Feel free to contact everyone he knows. I can assure You, most of them can't speak English, and most of them are as intolerant as he is.
In day of globalisation is easy to forget, that not every part of the world is the same. In some of the Eastern European countries, most probably in Belarus as well, if one will dress overly flamboyant to express ones homosexual attitude, will get a solid beating from local skinheads, and then from local police, or however it's called now, probably Militia, or something similar. That's how it is there.
Thing is, while Vik is dealing with people from different countries, he still lives in Belarus, right? And in Eastern Europe some countries like Czech Republic are quite liberal and tolerant. Some, like Poland - depends, in big cities it's getting there slowly, but still, there are places, where one can get a beating for being "different". And then there are countries like Belarus. He's not an island, trust me. Feel free to contact everyone he knows. I can assure You, most of them can't speak English, and most of them are as intolerant as he is.
In day of globalisation is easy to forget, that not every part of the world is the same. In some of the Eastern European countries, most probably in Belarus as well, if one will dress overly flamboyant to express ones homosexual attitude, will get a solid beating from local skinheads, and then from local police, or however it's called now, probably Militia, or something similar. That's how it is there.
I live in Eastern Europe, and I'm aware of the fact that our society has much to learn. I've already addressed this point of view to the readers/contributors of this tread, but I'd never use this as an excuse to justify Vik's behavior.
Speaking or not speaking English is not part of the whole issue. Anyway, Vik's English is pretty good as far as I can tell, he deals with international clients on a global market, so no excuse here either.
(BTW, the Czech Republic as a whole is not as tolerant as Prague, the city you most likely had visited. The same goes for Hungary, too: Budapest and some other parts of the country are like they were on a different planet.)
You've missed the idea entirely. The idea is, trying to "stigmatize" him wouldn't work. Someone had an idea, to let know "everyone he ever talked to" that he is intolerant. And that wouldn't work. I mean, I don't get why everyone is so surprised with Belarusian being not-very-friendly towards gay people. I'm not saying it's ok, but I'm puzzled why everyone seems to be so surprised.
Again, missing the point. I'm like, "contact them all, good luck".
Czech Republic is overall way more tolerant than Poland for that matter. Lived in Poland quite close to border with Czech Republic for quite a long time. To be honest, while playing live in Poland is fine, playing in Czech Republic is great... and playing in Ukraine and Belarus is terrible. At least for me personally. Mainly because of authorities being "oh, those from the bands, they're obviously a drug dealers".
stevexc
Well-Known Member
"Surprise" has nothing to do with it. "Renowned luthier spreading hatespeech, alienating his customer base, and extorting money and support from his endorsees being offensive" is the entire issue.
Where he is from is entirely irrelevant. If he were from America, if he were from Korea, if he were from the goddamn moon he's still a hateful, homophobic bigot.
So what is it exactly you're trying to say? That we should ignore him because "Oh, they don't like gays over there anyways"? That we should reinforce the (misguided) notion that it's okay to do ANY of the crap he did?
What I'm trying to say, is this guy is apparently skilled luthier. And this is all that matters from my point of view. Being a dick is not illegal as far as I remember, so why would I care, as a customer what the guy is about? I'm paying for his skills, not how decent human being he is. Although, he should get a PR guy if he cannot deal with that by himself, but that's different matter.
What I'm also trying to say, is making so much drama, because some Belarusian guy is homophobic is as stupid as making drama, because some Cuban guy is communist... I mean, hardly an unexpected turn.
Also: a lot of famous people are dicks in their private lifes. Eric Clapton is rasist. Does that mean it should be a massive 30-page thread about not listening to him anymore? Give me a break.
What I'm also trying to say, is making so much drama, because some Belarusian guy is homophobic is as stupid as making drama, because some Cuban guy is communist... I mean, hardly an unexpected turn.
Also: a lot of famous people are dicks in their private lifes. Eric Clapton is rasist. Does that mean it should be a massive 30-page thread about not listening to him anymore? Give me a break.
HeHasTheJazzHands
Well-Known Member
Did you miss the parts where some guys have been waiting forever for their guitars, plus the fact that Misha didn't get his money back until this shitstorm hit the peak? People seem to be cherrypicking details in order to defend the guy.
Tell me how only Vik is delaying everything. A lot of small, and not so small custom shops has problems with delays, and refunds. And again - he's a terrible businessman, no doubts about it.
What made You think I'm defending him? I'm just against making it so over the top.
What made You think I'm defending him? I'm just against making it so over the top.
stevexc
Well-Known Member
Charging gay people double - regardless if it was a joke or not - is a human rights violation.
He's taking huge - multiyear - delays in producing and shipping PAYING CUSTOMERS' instruments (even bringing one to NAMM with him without permission from the customer that, as far as I recall, has still not been delivered) while putting endorsees at the top of the list.
Why are you trying so hard to defend him? His guitars aren't even that great compared to a lot of other luthiers with actual business (and personal) ethics. Plus you'll actually get it.
Because if you're gay, you probably don't want to give your money to someone who hates you for being who you naturally are. And if you're straight, you may well not like someone who wants to make life as difficult as possible for people just because of who they naturally are.
Winspear
Winspear // Noisemother
He actually asked me this himself. As I told him, the difference is, most reputable luthiers keep communication, are honest and don't lie multiple times making false promises. In our discussion it was quite clear he thought he was an exception to the rule, and that anyone bringing up these complaints was a liar out to slander him.
Promit
Well-Known Member
Still happening.
Did he charge anyone double? If he didn't, then there's no case. If someone will tell You, that tuning pegs will be made out of elephants' horn, will You believe it, and take it to the court? Sorry, comment on FB is not violation of anything. Show me invoice with gay person being charged double. Or stop making a problem bigger than it is.
Go through NGDs in here. Do I remember correctly someone had a Jackson delayed by a year or so? I do remember however a Jackson custom with wrong specification. Actually, two of them.
(Almost) everyone is doing that. I hate it as much as You do, much that's how it is.
I'm not. I don't care who he is, I don't have his guitar, and not going to buy one anytime soon. Just enjoying a discussion really. I'm having fun, do You?
flint757
Well-Known Member
Read the thread and you'll get a better idea of the situation. Your responses tell me you haven't actually done that.
Hollowway
Extended Ranger
That's your prerogative. But don't tell me I'm stupid if what matters to me is more than whether he's a skilled luthier. It does matter to me whether I am supporting someone who is a dick or not. I would prefer, when possible, to only support decent human beings. If you don't care about that, then fine. But don't come in here and tell me, or any of the rest of us, how to act.
And for the record, if I see Clapton say something racist, then yeah, I probably won't buy a Clapton album.
Same here, as I don't listen to Lostprophets anymore. Too bad, I really enjoyed Liberation Transmission.
spawnofthesith
Well-Known Member
Clapton is pretty ....ing racist
JoshuaVonFlash
SSBRO.org regular
Clapton is in a weird spot between racist and I don't know what. I mean there was that incident at one of his concerts in the 70's but he frequently hung out with Jimi Hendrix (hell he even bought him a left handed strat for his birthday but jimi passed on before he could give it to him) and he plays with Buddy Guy and B.B. King a lot as well. So who the hell knows.
