Vik Drama: Round 3

[broj15]

I'm going to assume you have no idea what Cis refers to (gender not sexuality), if you do what are you on about?

Sorry if i'm misinformed. I just associate terms like "privilege fence" and "cis scum" with social justice bloggers.

 

[noUser01]

Class act.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

Class act.

Yeah, us guys criticizing Vik are on the same level as this.

 

[Joose]

^Exactly why I (Arick) posted that. Knew he'd have a super (duper) classy response. Also, I doubt he has any clue there was a Family Guy reference in there.

Sorry if i'm misinformed. I just associate terms like "privilege fence" and "cis scum" with social justice bloggers.

 

[Jzbass25]

I guess I won't be purchasing a nolly duality anytime soon.

 

[noUser01]

Yeah, us guys criticizing Vik are on the same level as this.

Seeing some of the comments on his page and the ViK Guitars page - yes, there are some people sinking to his level. But just criticizing him or his opinion is in no way a show of poor character or lack of professionalism. So personally, I disagree.

 

[Insinfier]

 

[Joose]

I see a ViK guitar in Bill O'Reilly's future.

 

[PyramidSmasher]

Not trying to stir shit here and in no sense do I condone his behavior (big Cynic/Masvidal fan and have nothing against gay people) but when/why does someone earn a public execution for voicing an opinion? Is it when it deviates from standard ethics? In my opinion, just like you can't force a sexual orientation on someone, you shouldn't really force an opinion on someone either.

If the man has problems with gay people, it's obviously his problem and now you know who to avoid. But this whole internet-crusade thing nowadays, can't say I'm a big fan.

Then obviously you can buy his guitars and the people who arent cool with it wont???

Easy right?

 

[Khoi]

I guess I won't be purchasing a nolly duality anytime soon.

no longer a Nolly Duality, Nolly has renounced any association with Vik

 

[Sofos]

I want to buy/build a rip-off of the Duality in rainbow colors that is converted to headless, because fvck Vik

 

[PyramidSmasher]

I do know that 'equal human rights' is an awful idea as a movement. It would imply that equal rights are to be given to murderers, rapists, pediphiles, incestual persons, those involved in beastiality, drug trafficking etc. basically it opens a can of worms where everyone gets to say 'but they get their rights, so you have to give me mine' which wouldn't end well.

You are showing your lack of education by talking about something you know nothing about... "Rights" are stripped from those who infringe upon the rights of others... which is why you go to jail for murder. That's what the entire justice system exists to enforce. I.E. a rapist infringes on the rights of a child who can not consent, and consequently forfeits their own rights by displaying that they do not abide by the contract themselves.


Why are you even weighing in on this man you didnt even spell pedophiles right.

 

[noUser01]

I want to buy/build a rip-off of the Duality in rainbow colors that is converted to headless, because fvck Vik

Group buy? All dudes. Sausage fest buy.

 

[VigilSerus]

Hate to do this crosspost thing, so I'll just cut this post I had down a little. I found this thread later after seeing a link someone posted about Cynic in the LGBT thread.

I didn't really care, he was just expressing his opinion. I'm bi but I don't really see the need to hate every person that I come across as bigoted. In something like a business setting, as long as it doesn't permeate the business, I am fine with it. Vik made those comments on his personal FB iirc. When I found out the whole "headless guitar" hate just because of Paul, I got irked. What went too far was the comment Vik made on the VIK GUITARS PAGE ITSELF about "doubling" the price if you weren't heterosexual. I can justify the hate that people are expressing toward him.

What I want to stress here is having business etiquette. If I had my own business, and a well and capable, working neo-nazi applied, I wouldn't judge his employment based on his views. It is if he were to cause trouble with me or customers that I would absolutely fire him. If Vik had only subtly dropped his distaste towards homosexuality, I would have just waved it away and not cared. If I had the money I would even still buy his guitars. But he kind of persisted a little. He wasn't that subtle. When it reaches the point that it affects your business, that's where the line is crossed.

 

[Hollowway]

not sure what my avatar has to do with it (Efrim from GY!BE) other than I'm sure he's a supporter of "alternative lifestyles" (idk, all i know about his political beliefs is his disdain of Canadia's / Quebec's government.) I just think it's funny that anytime someone voices an opinion that goes against the grain there's always a million people lined up to berate them over it. Was it a dumb business decision? yes. Do I agree with him? certainly not. It just kills me that people think it's okay to be intolerant of homophobes and no ok to be intolerant of homosexuals when they're both just 2 sides of the same intolerant coin.

Yeah, I meant that in the avatar he's holding up a sign that says, "HOPE," which is usually used by people trying to bring humanity together. And you made a post that voiced tolerance for dividing humanity.

The issue that I think your missing is that someone saying, "I hate gays" is not like someone saying, "I hate hamburgers." Most people may be tolerant of both gays and hamburgers, but when was the last time someone who likes hamburgers was beat up or killed for liking them? You HAVE to know that there is a sordid history of homophobia, and for many people it isn't an opinion, but is a mandate to hurt or kill others. Because those people are emboldened by, and use as rationalization, the hatred of others, this kind of thing is generally not tolerated. It's not because of a matter of opinion.

Your argument is like saying that you're allowed to run into a crowded theater and yell, "FIRE!" and claim it's your right to free speech that allows that. But you are not allowed to do that, because it's a misinterpretation of what is allowed. So to say that hating a minority group is acceptable behavior is to miss the point of what is an opinion and what is prejudice.

Lastly, from a logic standpoint, you cannot turn an argument back on itself to disprove it. Zaibu put it far more eloquently that I could, with "not tolerating intolerance is not intolerance." That's like saying that is someone hates a group of people, you cannot hate that person, or you are no better than them. The idea is you hate their intolerance for others, not them for who they are. There's a difference, and you've either stumbled into this without thinking it through (and I've been there before) or you cannot understand the distinction because you are not open minded. I don't think most people on here are closed minded, though.

 

[rapterr15]

Steve Jobs was a giant douche, and Apple products continue to sell like hotcakes. Say you don't like gays and your brand is destroyed, even if you're producing a quality product. Now Vik is clearly a douche and I don't support his statements, but it's a strange world we live in when a ruthless bastard like Jobs is idolized by so many, but if you don't agree with dicks going in men's butts then all hell breaks loose.

 

[broj15]

Yeah, I meant that in the avatar he's holding up a sign that says, "HOPE," which is usually used by people trying to bring humanity together. And you made a post that voiced tolerance for dividing humanity.

The issue that I think your missing is that someone saying, "I hate gays" is not like someone saying, "I hate hamburgers." Most people may be tolerant of both gays and hamburgers, but when was the last time someone who likes hamburgers was beat up or killed for liking them? You HAVE to know that there is a sordid history of homophobia, and for many people it isn't an opinion, but is a mandate to hurt or kill others. Because those people are emboldened by, and use as rationalization, the hatred of others, this kind of thing is generally not tolerated. It's not because of a matter of opinion.

Your argument is like saying that you're allowed to run into a crowded theater and yell, "FIRE!" and claim it's your right to free speech that allows that. But you are not allowed to do that, because it's a misinterpretation of what is allowed. So to say that hating a minority group is acceptable behavior is to miss the point of what is an opinion and what is prejudice.

Lastly, from a logic standpoint, you cannot turn an argument back on itself to disprove it. Zaibu put it far more eloquently that I could, with "not tolerating intolerance is not intolerance." That's like saying that is someone hates a group of people, you cannot hate that person, or you are no better than them. The idea is you hate their intolerance for others, not them for who they are. There's a difference, and you've either stumbled into this without thinking it through (and I've been there before) or you cannot understand the distinction because you are not open minded. I don't think most people on here are closed minded, though.

not trying to be a dick, really, but i think if you read my other comment it might explain my point better. I believe that giving people like this attention is what gives them their power. Ignore it. let them hate shit in their own vacuum with other people that hate the same. I live in a small town where bigotry towards a lot of stuff is rampant. I get people coming into my place of employment spouting it all them time, trying to get me to voice my opinion, usually already knowing what it is. I simply don't acknowledge it and change the subject. They eventually give up and do't even bring it up when they see me.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

Steve Jobs was a giant douche, and Apple products continue to sell like hotcakes. Say you don't like gays and your brand is destroyed, even if you're producing a quality product. Now Vik is clearly a douche and I don't support his statements, but it's a strange world we live in when a ruthless bastard like Jobs is idolized by so many, but if you don't agree with dicks going in men's butts then all hell breaks loose.

Oh my fucking god.

 

[bulb]

The right to free speech means that you won't go to jail for speaking your mind, however you will still have to face the consequences that follow the things you choose to say.

People seem to forget this a lot.

 

[Joose]

Steve Jobs was a giant douche, and Apple products continue to sell like hotcakes. Say you don't like gays and your brand is destroyed, even if you're producing a quality product. Now Vik is clearly a douche and I don't support his statements, but it's a strange world we live in when a ruthless bastard like Jobs is idolized by so many, but if you don't agree with dicks going in men's butts then all hell breaks loose.

Before I say anything, care to explain?