Vik Guitars Discussion

[glassmoon0fo]

@Gango, I think most adults on this forum know, understand and acknowledge most of what you said. The majority of us do live in a more liberalized country than some other places, and that does skew peoples views of what is "acceptably" right and wrong across borders, so I get what you're saying. But personally, my problem isn't the fact that I think Vik is wrong, as I was once wrong about a lot of things. It's the ....ing arrogance with which he chooses to CONTINUE to be wrong, and the whiney, bitch-made fashion with which he chooses to drag out his microbattles with people he claims to not mind. I tend to expect a certain decorum from a grown ass man, regardless of country, ethnic background, sexuality, what have you, and it doesn't include backhanded comments, public posting of business matters that could be handled in private, deleting only comments that aren't in line with yours when your ENTIRE defense is "free speech" (btw he's screwing the pooch on that one), and taking your ball and going home when the questions get too hard. Not to mention that HOW HE MANAGE HIS BUSINESS, as you say, IS one of our biggest issues with him Now that he's getting raped by the long dick of the internet, I recon some of those shoddy practices are magically disappearing, at least for a while, so at least some good has come out of this for his customers, but seeing a fully grown, bearded almost-Russian man fight his e-battles like a chick with a period leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and I don't think I'm the only one. I'd buy one of his guitars second-hand in a heartbeat and would gladly put down a name on the wait list if he cleaned up his business practices, maybe apologized in a sincere manner instead of that "i'm sorry you disagree" bs, and maybe started acting like Don Draper instead of Perez Hilton. Ironic, that.

Mods, please forgive if I've missed a rule change in the past couple days, that banhammer up there looks mighty intimidating now that I look at it.

 

[Wings of Obsidian]

Mods, please forgive if I've missed a rule change in the past couple days, that banhammer up there looks mighty intimidating now that I look at it.

 

[BlackStar7]

I think Misha , evidently annoyed by the delays , has taken advantage of the situation to make a lot of noise . I condemn his attitude simply because being a public figure may adversely affect the masses.

Not Vik though, huh? Nothing to condemn about his attitude?

 

[ramses]

[...] Vik himself has stated that he has nothing against gays, simply does not agree with their choices ... Not sharing gay choices mean to be homophobic ? [...]

I'm sorry, but you should read how Vik insulted Nolly and gays:

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/4049350-post701.html

Vik is indefensible at this moment.

 

[Gango79]

ok ok I think I introduce myself in this thread is not the best way for me to make me appreciate to the other members of the forum! this is a solid community, and transmit my point of view is a difficult thing! Anyway glassmoon0fo appreciate your polite way to disagree with my point of view! What I condemn are the insults on his facebook page from those who do not know him and takes the opportunity to smear the work of one person.

I'm sorry, but you should read how Vik insulted Nolly and gays:

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/4049350-post701.html

Vik is indefensible at this moment.

Sorry but I don't understand...Misha get the guitar?

 

[Hollowway]

Vik himself has stated that he has nothing against gays, simply does not agree with their choices.

Yes, and we have nothing against Vik, we simply do not agree with his choices. Good, so we agree. Now, let's go back to talking what crappy choices Vik is making in dealing with his customers, running his business, and managing his brand.

 

[ramses]

Sorry but I don't understand...Misha get the guitar?

Those are messages that Vik sent Nolly, after Nolly made his public statement on the matter.

Misha did not get the guitar, he requested a refund, and got it.

 

[JoshuaVonFlash]

In Italy for example, the birthplace of Christianity

I'm not a religious scholar but I'm pretty sure the birth place of Christianity is Jerusalum.

 

[Watty]

Yes, and we have nothing against Vik, we simply do not agree with his choices. Good, so we agree. Now, let's go back to talking what crappy choices Vik is making in dealing with his customers, running his business, and managing his brand.

Amen.

Gango, you seem to again be missing the point that freedom of expression is not freedom from reprisal (within reason). As is stated above, Vik can say and do whatever he likes...just as we are free to be critical of his choices and exercise that critical capacity in a public manner.

 

[Gango79]

I'm not a religious scholar but I'm pretty sure the birth place of Christianity is Jerusalum.

Sorry Joshua,
To be more precise Rome was the birthplace of Christian Catholicism

 

[Gango79]

Amen.

Gango, you seem to again be missing the point that freedom of expression is not freedom from reprisal (within reason). As is stated above, Vik can say and do whatever he likes...just as we are free to be critical of his choices and exercise that critical capacity in a public manner.

provided that this is not going to affect the work of Others.

 

[Hollowway]

provided that this is not going to affect the work of Others.

What does that mean?

 

[Gango79]

Sorry my English is not so clear...Watty says:we are free to be critical of his choices and exercise that critical capacity in a public manner"
Ok, just do not hurt his work only for his different ideas.
The management of his business can instead be subject to criticism if you feel it right

 

[flint757]

So if I went into a restaurant and the owner was a complete dick, took an hour longer than expected to bring me my food, brought me the wrong thing the first time, but once I got the food it was the best thing I ever tasted I'm obligated to continue going to his restaurant and should just ignore how I and others were treated along the way? Call me crazy, but I don't believe most people would.

People claiming that agree with his POV and are upset that it isn't acceptable to think this way in today's world. Sorry to burst your bubble I guess.

 

[Gango79]

The management of his business can instead be subject to criticism if you feel it right

 

[Watty]

Sorry my English is not so clear...Watty says:we are free to be critical of his choices and exercise that critical capacity in a public manner"
Ok, just do not hurt his work only for his different ideas.
The management of his business can instead be subject to criticism if you feel it right

Flint nailed it with his example, but suffice it to say we were already on his case due to his atrocious customer service, this just made it even worse.

That aside, you could make the argument the other way around as well; his views are the picture of decency, but his product sucks. This wouldn't be okay either from a consumer's point of view (barring other stipulations that weren't directly associated with said product).

You can't quote yourself with a thumbs up, I do believe that's against the unspoken rules of the internet.

 

[Explorer]

I believe that in recent weeks we have been treated subjects too large for a forum of guitars.

Out of curiosity, did you similarly post publicly on Vik's site, telling him that he is treating a subject too large for a commercial website?

A forum is dedicated to discussion, good or ill, on many subjects. You know this, because you are using this forum to post your opinion, right?

A business website might decide to incorporate those subjects, but normally is used to promote a business. In this case, if you feel a forum is too narrow a place to discuss this, then a business website is even narrower.

I suspect you didn't post on his website to chastise him in the way you have chastised us. No "how dare you cast the first stone against gays," am I right?

Looking at what you've decided to speak out against, you're okay with casting first stones against gays, but not against those who cast that first stone.

It all started with a joke of poor taste and it all culminated in a mass movement against a person.

It's funny that you don't see the joke as part of a mass movement against, say, my gay family member, or any other gay person, but you easily see the reaction against that mass movement as being a mass movement.

Think about that.

His joke is part of a mass movement to make gays second-class people. Joking about charging more if you're gay, for example, holds nothing objectionable for a lot of people, including you.

I think many have wanted to take advantage of a unhappy joke to lash out at someone without even know him personally ... no one knows him except for his work and HOW HE MANAGE HIS BUSINESS.

Also an issue, how he runs his business. However, in this case he ran his business by casting these stones on his business website. One doesn't need to know him personally to see him doing this, they just have to look at how he manages his business.

I'm not sure how this is "taking advantage" of his antigay comments to "lash out." People were commenting on his comments themselves. It's not like anyone was laying wait for him, just waiting for an acceptable excuse to "lash out" against him.

Instead, Vik attacked gays, and people reacted to that bigotry.

Those of you in the past has never made gay jokes ?

Come on guys a little ' honesty !

Honesty? You can't imagine people not making a bigoted joke?

Imagine that you're talking to a black audience, also containing people who are not black but who are happily and willingly in communities with them. Let's ask your question, with a slight change:

"Those of you in the past has never made jokes about stupid n*ggers? Come on guys a little ' honesty!"

Or, an Italian audience. Wouldn't they have made jokes about how they're stupid italians? Honesty!

You're assuming that everyone views bigotry as casually as you do.

----

*sigh*

It's a little sad that you're unaware of Italy's history, and don't see any parallels between Mussolini's bigotries and what you're defending.

You might want to do a little reading on the Manifesto della razza and then figure out if marginalization of any group of human beings might be a good thing, given your new-found historic perspective.

And yes, that's also fair game for a discussion forum. ERG players are pretty expansive that way, a extension of their being willing to extend their thinking musically, right?

Happy reading!

 

[Gango79]

You can't quote yourself with a thumbs up, I do believe that's against the unspoken rules of the internet.

Only for emphasize what i've said

 

[Explorer]

I'm not a religious scholar but I'm pretty sure the birth place of Christianity is Jerusalum.

BTW, it's hilarious that this had to be pointed out.

 

[Gango79]

Honesty? You can't imagine people not making a bigoted joke?

Imagine that you're talking to a black audience, also containing people who are not black but who are happily and willingly in communities with them. Let's ask your question, with a slight change:

"Those of you in the past has never made jokes about stupid n*ggers? Come on guys a little ' honesty!"

Or, an Italian audience. Wouldn't they have made jokes about how they're stupid italians? Honesty!

You're assuming that everyone views bigotry as casually as you do.

----

*sigh*

It's a little sad that you're unaware of Italy's history, and don't see any parallels between Mussolini's bigotries and what you're defending.

You might want to do a little reading on the Manifesto della razza and then figure out if marginalization of any group of human beings might be a good thing, given your new-found historic perspective.

And yes, that's also fair game for a discussion forum. ERG players are pretty expansive that way, a extension of their being willing to extend their thinking musically, right?

Happy reading!

I think we're going too personally, do not you?





is the first time that comapre me to a fascist!

sigh