Weightlifting routine vs. desired outcome

[zackh]

So... I've been on a 4 day/week weightlifting routine for the past 5-6 months, and I'm not exactly seeing the results I expected.

A little background about me: I've been athletic all my life, not fat at all, not a twig... But the results I'm seeing from my routine are less muscle mass gaining than I'd like, but everything's getting really cut up.

I take whey protein supplements after every workout, sometimes i'll have a shake in the morning the day after a workout as well.

My routine:
M- Delts/Traps
W- Bis/Tris/Abs
F- Chest/Abs
S- Back/Hams/Calves

If anyone's got any input on what you've done to overcome this same problem (if you've had it), or have suggestions... It'd be greatly appreciated. Cheers!

 

[SomeGuy97]

You didn't even list your diet, which I assume is the culprit. Plus you didn't mention anything about the exercises you do, and it looks like your neglecting your quads (unless you meant quads instead of hams, in which case you're neglecting hams).

One "whey supplement" a day, or maybe even two, isn't going to be enough to make drastic, or probably any change.

 

[Winspear]

The routine looks alright...anything will work, really. You said hams and calves but what about quads? Put some squats in there if you're not already.

Weight and height? It's probably your diet, considering you don't have many shakes. It's very hard to get enough protein without them.
The fact that you are getting cut up means that you are in a calorie defecit, to be able to loose fat. Try get another 500 calories and at 200g+ protein a day. Sounds a lot but 3 scoops of whey with 3 pints of full fat/half milk a day will help a great deal.

I'm 5'9", started 150lbs. 3kcals and 220g of protein worked out just right to make 20lb gain over 8 months.
Aim for 1.5-2 grams of protein per pound of lean body weight.

 

[Stealthdjentstic]

FUCKING EAT SON

 

[zackh]

I'm 6'0" 174 lbs. I don't eat a ton, but I don't live on ramen noodles... Are there any websites you guys use for tracking your diet?

 

[Stealthdjentstic]

Like a gentlemen above me noted, you need more calories going in than out to put on weight. So bulk, don't be afraid to get a little chubby, then cut!

 

[zackh]

I will just have to start getting extra calories/more protein per day after this summer's internship... A gallon of milk in Alaska is $7 and food that's worth anything is nearly double the price it would be in Illinois. It's insane.

 

[sage]

Fuck that. 6' 174lbs is ideal. Add muscle at your own peril. It's a real bitch to try to reset your metabolism in your thirties and forties when you decide that the extra 30lbs of muscle you just had to have in your twenties had wreaked havoc on your knees and ankles.

 

[Winspear]

For sure it doesn't come cheap. I was shocked when I realised why I'd gained no weight in 2 years and learnt about diet, and I need a lot less food than you!
Whey protein and milk is going to be the cheapest for your requirements, but be prepared to spend $60-70 a week.

My diet for an example:
Porridge oats
Pint of full fat milk and whey scoop
Can of tuna and pasta
Peanut butter sandwich (good cheap calorie boost)
Another shake
Rice and two chicken breasts
Fruit and salad
Another shake

3kcals, 200g protein, healthy amount of carbs and fat. Add another shake or two and that should be about right for your size (extra 50g protein and ~700 cals)

 

[Wingchunwarrior]

Fuck that. 6' 174lbs is ideal. Add muscle at your own peril. It's a real bitch to try to reset your metabolism in your thirties and forties when you decide that the extra 30lbs of muscle you just had to have in your twenties had wreaked havoc on your knees and ankles.

I really wanna say just fuck off after reading this post but I'll restrain myself.

"wreaked havoc on your knees and ankles"

Yeah I don't doubt this could happen if you swung the weights around like a fucking idiot and used horrible form.I think you better tell this to Frank Zane who's a former bodybuilder from the 70s and at 68 still works out using heavy weights.Furthermore neither Jack LaLanne or Serge Nubret had "wreaked havoc on their knees and ankles" as until their deaths both used weight training and maintained muscular physiques.

When done PROPERLY,weight training is healthy PERIOD!

 

[failshredder]

When done PROPERLY,weight training is healthy PERIOD!

On the other hand, high-five for that post.

 

[Harry]

Ditch that routine, because it honestly doesn't sound like you have the strength you need anyway.
Start getting into more full body type stuff.
Here's your basic, super important exercises :

Deadlifts
Back Squats
Overhead Press
Chinups and Pullups
Bent over Rows
Flat Bench Press (barbell or dumbbell)
Dips

You NEED to be doing these.
Squats, do them 3 days a week (high frequency) with a low amount of sets, 3 sets (low volume) and working with a 3 to 5 rep max (high intensity).
Deadlifts are more taxing on the central nervous system, so 2 days a week at most is preferable. Again, low volume and high intensity.
Overhead press, bench press and dips, again, 2 days a week, low volume and high intensity.
You can use close grip bench press for triceps instead of dip, but muscle activation studies show that dips are superior for tricep activation.

Chinups and pullups, I like to do 3 days a week. What some people do, is bodyweight pullups and chinups 2 days a week, and the other day is using a dip belt for added weight.
Bent Over rows for your lats, 2 or 3 days per week (I like to do 2 days per week of it)

For traps, while shrugs are great, I highly recommend you learn power cleans and full cleans if you haven't already.
They build up posterior chain explosiveness as well as power and strength in the traps.

Now, while these aren't part of the basic movements, I consider these ones to be highly essential too.
Good Mornings and Romanian Deadlifts. They are important for hamstring development and because of the way they exercises are performed, they translate much better to performance gains in the back squat, whereas leg/hamstring curls aren't such a functional exercise.
They both help to build the lower back too, something the hamstring curls wont do.
They are assistance exercises, so there is never a need to do one rep maxes to test full strength, and due to their nature, they put you at really high risk of injury if form is sloppy.
If you can't do these for at least 4-5 reps with good form, drop the weight.
I do these usually only once a week.

For squats, make sure you are hitting at least parallel, but if you can get deeper and are flexible enough, by all means do it.
Squatting above parallel not only has sub-optimal effectiveness on training the posterior chain, it's also VERY dangerous on the knees.
You really need to hit at least parallel to engage the posterior chain properly.
I like to go for a fairly wide stance, as I feel it hits the glutes harder, puts less pressure on the lower back, and also makes it easier for me to hit proper depth. I go parallel on back squats. I'd go deeper, but not flexible enough yet.
For front squats, however, more narrow stance and all the way down, as low as I can go, for me
In general, just leave the ego at the door. If the weight is too heavy to squat for 4-5 reps down to parallel, drop the weight so that you can.

Get your diet in check, and I will guarantee you will see real changes in size and strength if you do the stuff I talked about above with good form.
If you decide to incorporate power cleans and full cleans, also expect to see a noticeable increase in your general athleticism

 

[sage]

I really wanna say just fuck off after reading this post but I'll restrain myself.

"wreaked havoc on your knees and ankles"

Yeah I don't doubt this could happen if you swung the weights around like a fucking idiot and used horrible form.I think you better tell this to Frank Zane who's a former bodybuilder from the 70s and at 68 still works out using heavy weights.Furthermore neither Jack LaLanne or Serge Nubret had "wreaked havoc on their knees and ankles" as until their deaths both used weight training and maintained muscular physiques.

When done PROPERLY,weight training is healthy PERIOD!

Yeah, it's not about the training part of the process. That's all fine and well. I'm sure you can squat 450lbs without damaging your knees. It's about the other 14 hours a day that you're ambling about with that extra weight that your skeleton probably wasn't designed to carry. Weight training is great. Maintaining muscle is great. Adding 30 lbs of muscle that your frame wasn't designed for sucks. And now that I'm 37 and my knees are, well, less useful than I'd like them to be, if I had it to do over, I would have refrained from ADDING weight to my frame and just toned the snot out of what I had.

But you might as well have just said "fuck off". Whatever. Choad.

 

[sage]

For sure it doesn't come cheap. I was shocked when I realised why I'd gained no weight in 2 years and learnt about diet, and I need a lot less food than you!
Whey protein and milk is going to be the cheapest for your requirements, but be prepared to spend $60-70 a week.

My diet for an example:
Porridge oats
Pint of full fat milk and whey scoop
Can of tuna and pasta
Peanut butter sandwich (good cheap calorie boost)
Another shake
Rice and two chicken breasts
Fruit and salad
Another shake

3kcals, 200g protein, healthy amount of carbs and fat. Add another shake or two and that should be about right for your size (extra 50g protein and ~700 cals)

Missing from your diet:
Broccoli
Carrots
Spinach
Beans
Zucchini
Eggplant

Actually, anything from the vegetable aisle in your local grocery store.

Do you poop diamonds? I can't imagine that the oats, fruit, and salad are enough to move the rest of your input through the output valve.

 

[Wingchunwarrior]

Yeah, it's not about the training part of the process. That's all fine and well. I'm sure you can squat 450lbs without damaging your knees. It's about the other 14 hours a day that you're ambling about with that extra weight that your skeleton probably wasn't designed to carry. Weight training is great. Maintaining muscle is great. Adding 30 lbs of muscle that your frame wasn't designed for sucks. And now that I'm 37 and my knees are, well, less useful than I'd like them to be, if I had it to do over, I would have refrained from ADDING weight to my frame and just toned the snot out of what I had.

But you might as well have just said "fuck off". Whatever. Choad.

Actually I should of said I brought up those examples because it shows men who have had muscular physiques all their life and not experienced crippling ankle and knee problems.They are only a few examples,I could go on but naming bodybuilders whom you probably haven't heard of seems pointless.Arnold Schwarzenegger? What about him? The extra weight that he put on in his bodybuilding career hasn't seemed to effect him.And we're not talking 30lbs either,Arnold weighed 260 lbs in the off season,which is very heavy for a 6,2 man.And what about all the fat people in the world who weigh much more than what their body intended?The majority of them don't suffer from serious joint problems.

The problems you have in your joints are not from your extra 30lbs you put on in your 20s.You must genetically have problems with your joints,its as simple as that.You can argue I'm no doctor and have no idea what I'm talking about and you'd probably be right but the 1000s of other examples that don't suffer from the same problems as you suggest excess weight has not caused your joint problems.

I actually look back on my last post and realize it was a little provocative however my point was clear and I still stand by it.So there's no need for name calling

 

[sage]

A force of between three and six times one’s body weight presses into the knee when you’re walking. That means for every extra 10 pounds you weigh, an additional 30 – 60 pounds of force is put on your knees with each step.

You are correct. You are no doctor.

Look, this is just my opinion: Maintaining a healthy weight is more important that putting on a fucktonne of muscle. It doesn't matter if your excess weight is muscle or fat, excess weight is detrimental to your health. Muscle less so than fat, but detrimental none the less. Sure, you can train with heavy weights into your 70's, why not. But maintaining that extra muscle is not as healthy as not putting it on in the first place.

So my recommendation for the OP is this, shred up what you have, don't bother putting on any extra. It ain't gonna do you any good in the long run.

But whatever, I'd rather be Peter Reid (champion Ironman triathlete) than Arnold Schwarzenegger any day, so my bias may be coloured. Unfortunately at 6'4" and with a definite mesomorphic build, I'm doomed to being slow on the bike and the run.

 

[jymellis]

being another "thinner" guy. i think you are working out to much.one thing i have noticed for us thinner guys, is that recovery time is important.try 3 times a week. alternate upper and lower body. so you have 6 days off upper body, the 6 off lower. bulking up with muscle mass seems to be alot about recovery time for us guys that burn calories by just blinking.

 

[SomeGuy97]

Serious lol @ the guy saying 174 lbs is ideal. Everything he's said after that is just as laughable.

Ditch that routine, because it honestly doesn't sound like you have the strength you need anyway.
Start getting into more full body type stuff.
Here's your basic, super important exercises :

Deadlifts
Back Squats
Overhead Press
Chinups and Pullups
Bent over Rows
Flat Bench Press (barbell or dumbbell)
Dips

You NEED to be doing these.
Squats, do them 3 days a week (high frequency) with a low amount of sets, 3 sets (low volume) and working with a 3 to 5 rep max (high intensity).
Deadlifts are more taxing on the central nervous system, so 2 days a week at most is preferable. Again, low volume and high intensity.
Overhead press, bench press and dips, again, 2 days a week, low volume and high intensity.
You can use close grip bench press for triceps instead of dip, but muscle activation studies show that dips are superior for tricep activation.

Chinups and pullups, I like to do 3 days a week. What some people do, is bodyweight pullups and chinups 2 days a week, and the other day is using a dip belt for added weight.
Bent Over rows for your lats, 2 or 3 days per week (I like to do 2 days per week of it)

He doesn't need to squat 3 days a week; I don't know anybody that does. Most power lifters will only squat once a week because it's just as taxing on the CNS (if not more so) as deadlifts. Most people regard the squat as the best indicator of overall strength as well as the best overall lift because it hits nearly every muscle group. Plus, if you're doing squats 3 days a week and DL's 2 days a week- when do your legs ever recover and when do you train the other muscle groups? Doing direct quad and ham work on the same day isn't ideal. I run two leg days a week- one more quad focused, the other ham focused. For a beginner he can probably get away with doing both on both days, but I still wouldn't do Squats and DLs more than once a week. A 3-5 rep range for a beginner isn't ideal either, for a variety of reasons, mainly safety.
He just needs to get in tune with his body and figure out what works for him. #1 above all else is that he needs to eat more. You have to eat big to get big. Everyone's body is different. Some people respond better with low reps some with high reps. Some body builders stay in the 30-40 rep range for nearly all lifts- but others like Coleman who were powerlifters do low-mid range reps. Some people need to shake up their routine and do different exercises every 3-6 months- others like Coleman have been doing the same routine for 20+ years. Some people need more time to recover than others. With time you'll be able to listen to what your body tells you it needs and responds best to. The important part is that you LISTEN and do what it needs.

Same thing goes for certain exercises and form. I can no longer flat bench or do dips because it destroys my shoulders. I use to do wide grip bench, touch to chest- and now I can't. I'm limited to decline bench and close grip flat bench (as long as my elbows don't drop below my shoulder line). There are some really bad exercises (like upright rows) that will destroy your shoulders in time and I wish I would have known then what I know now because I can't tell you how much it sucks to not be able to flat bench anymore.

 

[Demonbrn]

I used to be a 'thinner' guy, I'm 5'11" and before I started working out I weighed 145. I put on a lot of muscle for football (got up to 190) to be a linebacker. The problem with putting on more muscle into a small frame is you end up having to work out much MUCH more in the long run. I started at 4 days a week, and to keep my body going I ended up haveing to workout 6 days a week up to 6 hours a day.

Now this is fine and all, if you are being paid to do it and have the facilities at your disposal. And what I mean is, when you're working 40 plus hours a week (at a job, not exercising), you don't have time for for that kind of regimen, and your body goes out of whack and all that muscle starts converting to fat REALLY fast (depending on what you do for work of course). I actually suffered injuries over the years due to this 'out of whack' down spiral and due to them could never continue working out, so I now weigh 245 lbs (I'm not extremely fat, but it's WAY over my ideal of 190-200. And screw the BMI, it's for super models and doesn't account for different ethnic groups).

Also, don't neglect stretching and cardio. If you become muscle bound, it will make it harder for your muscles to circulate blood and will hinder your efforts severely (not to mention potential rips and tears). You should pre-stretch for 20 minutes for every hour your work out and don't neglect the cooldowns.

 

[zackh]

Thanks for all the good input. I definitely understand the "listening to your body" thing... A few weeks ago, probably due to overworking my upper body (I was on a different routine), I had serious pain in my forearm that seemed to be focused right between my wrist and my elbow. Every time I would finish a set of preacher curls, there was a sharp pain that seemed to resonate through my forearms. I obviously took a break after that. (btw, could wrist straps fix that?)