What are some cliches in guitar dominated music that you can't stand?

[abandonist]

When people get too involved in the academics of sound rather than just letting sound be sound.

"The problem is that instruments are square, and music is round."
-Tom Waits

 

[rythmic_pulses]

When people get too involved in the academics of sound rather than just letting sound be sound.

"The problem is that instruments are square, and music is round."
-Tom Waits

Like when people become frequency freaks in the studio?
"I knew we should have used 600Hz in the low mids instead of 800Hz, it totally clashes with the high mids at 2.40KHz"

I can be like that sometimes, but not as exaggerated as what I posted above

 

[Nykur_Myrkvi]

I actually kinda agree with dude buddy on bands with two vocalists who both sound exactly the same. I'm looking at you, Vildjthallta. It's completely fucking pointless and adds nothing to the band's performance. Bands like SikTh and Rwake can pull it off cause their vocalists have very different styles, and when it's two dudes who also play instruments, it makes sense as well, cus one dude might not be able to play and yell at the same time for an entire set. But if they're not doing anything but yelling, and you can't distinguish one yeller from another, then I'd say your band needs a strong dose of getdafuckouttahere.

Well, yes but saying bands with two vocalists, whether screaming or not, suck because there are bad examples is kinda pushing it.

I know bands with two guitarists where both always do the same thing = Bands with two guitarists suck.

I know it's not really a fair comparison but still. You get my point.

also, I had no idea Vildhjarta had two vocalists. Haven't really listened to them anyway though.

 

[Narrillnezzurh]

Fretless stringed instruments and the entire woodwind family come to mind.

I don't recall saying anything in regards to alternative temperaments, only the limitations of 12-TET within the context of metal. My preference, if anything, would be "seasoned" 12-TET, ie an equal-temperament backbone but with sufficient flexibility to bring notes into just-intonation tuning relative to any other given pitch as needed. Not really practical for fretted guitar, but it's quite lovely in a classical band or orchestra context. Fretless guitars can pull it off if you've got the ear for it, but in most cases it would be impractical due to fretted counterparts or a keyboard player.

Fretless stringed instruments are subject to human error, and even the highest quality woodwind instruments aren't manufactured perfectly. It's true that we're talking minute margins of error, but all manufacturing error will eventually be eclipsed by human error anyways.

And I realize you weren't comparing 12-TET to other temperaments. I just don't think temperament is a limiting factor in the harmonic growth of metal, and I thought it was worth noting that equal temperament is actually more suited to harmonic growth than any of our other options.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Fretless stringed instruments are subject to human error, and even the highest quality woodwind instruments aren't manufactured perfectly. It's true that we're talking minute margins of error, but all manufacturing error will eventually be eclipsed by human error anyways.

Wind instruments actually tend to be slightly out of tune anyway, even if very high quality. My bassoon for instance is out of tune on certain pitches across its entire range (Bb1 to E5 or so). Sharp on some, flat on others. These tendencies are common to all Heckel-style bassoons, not just my specific horn. Unlike most winds, pulling in or out on the mouthpiece (well, the bocal) is inadvisable, though you can use different bocals to adjust broad tendencies. I'm in tune when I play though, because I learned those tendencies and how to adjust for them. Perfectly in tune? Maybe not, but consistently within a couple of cents. I can adjust my target to suit the current note and chord as well - how else would I achieve that "seasoned" tuning I spoke of before? I will say that we don't employ it for every chord - the pieces can run quite long and the benefits tend to go unnoticed in brief chords - but big major chords and such? Certainly.

The human error you highlight is much smaller than the difference between just and equal temperaments for most of the non-perfect intervals. Only the major second and minor seventh are of comparable distance at less and more ~four cents, respectively, whereas the rest exceed ten cents difference. While it's true that the human ear is generally capable of accepting these discrepancies in intonation, distortion greatly magnifies the issue.

And I realize you weren't comparing 12-TET to other temperaments. I just don't think temperament is a limiting factor in the harmonic growth of metal, and I thought it was worth noting that equal temperament is actually more suited to harmonic growth than any of our other options.

I do prefer 12-TET to just intonation or Pythagorean tuning, but the fact remains that complex chords are less palateable with the gain turned up and the discrepancies between 12-TET and actual harmonic intervals are a major factor in that. This was the origin of my interest in the fretless guitar - the lack of frets provides, among infinite other possibilities, the option of mixing just and equal temperaments to create more consonant chords with an equal-tempered framework.

 

[Narrillnezzurh]

Wind instruments actually tend to be slightly out of tune anyway, even if very high quality. My bassoon for instance is out of tune on certain pitches across its entire range (Bb1 to E5 or so). Sharp on some, flat on others. These tendencies are common to all Heckel-style bassoons, not just my specific horn. Unlike most winds, pulling in or out on the mouthpiece (well, the bocal) is inadvisable, though you can use different bocals to adjust broad tendencies. I'm in tune when I play though, because I learned those tendencies and how to adjust for them. Perfectly in tune? Maybe not, but consistently within a couple of cents. I can adjust my target to suit the current note and chord as well - how else would I achieve that "seasoned" tuning I spoke of before? I will say that we don't employ it for every chord - the pieces can run quite long and the benefits tend to go unnoticed in brief chords - but big major chords and such? Certainly.

The human error you highlight is much smaller than the difference between just and equal temperaments for most of the non-perfect intervals. Only the major second and minor seventh are of comparable distance at less and more ~four cents, respectively, whereas the rest exceed ten cents difference. While it's true that the human ear is generally capable of accepting these discrepancies in intonation, distortion greatly magnifies the issue.

I do prefer 12-TET to just intonation or Pythagorean tuning, but the fact remains that complex chords are less palateable with the gain turned up and the discrepancies between 12-TET and actual harmonic intervals are a major factor in that. This was the origin of my interest in the fretless guitar - the lack of frets provides, among infinite other possibilities, the option of mixing just and equal temperaments to create more consonant chords with an equal-tempered framework.

I agree with all of this to an extent. Just keep in mind that guitars are not (as of yet) capable of "seasoned" equal temperament within an acceptable margin of error, so while 12-TET may have its flaws it's certainly the most versatile tuning system available to us with regard to harmonic growth.

And my mention of human error was more referring to the eventualities of manufacturing precision, not the discrepancies between various temperaments.

 

[Overtone]

This conversation reminded me of when Data plays violin. His intonation is inhumanly good! I think now my album for the evening has been decided... Kronos Quartet plays Philip Glass!

 

[guitareben]

Ban in 3,2,1...

Back on topic: I think a sweet-sounding note with a soulful vibrato is worth more than a gazillion notes played on some Ibanez axe. Give me Santana over Becker or Malmsteen any day.

Actually Malmsteen has some wicked Vibrato ^^

 

[m3l-mrq3z]

Indeed it is, but it's too wide for my taste. Vai has the best vibrato out there.

 

[jehu12141987]

Anyone mention the good ol "sling the guitar around your neck to show how awesome you are" trick? I just want to kick nads when i see that.

 

[groverj3]

Blues nazis

 

[jimwratt]

Stickers on guitars

 

[hairychris]

People complaining about bass drops must not have a sub in their car

I don't have a car, fwiw, but I do have a good hifi at home.

It's still lame as fuck.

 

[wankerness]

WTF is a bass drop outside of the context of dubstep, does anyone have an example of this handy?

 

[InfinityCollision]

There's a few spread through the Strapping Young Lad catalog. Shitstorm comes to mind.

EDIT: few seconds after here http://youtu.be/xm-eXzMdfro?t=2m55s

 

[TheBloodstained]

Bad production... I seriously can't enjoy listening to something that isn't really well produced, and I know this is a matter of taste!
On the other hand I've bought albums purely because I like the production and loves listening to that specific production, like After The Burial - In Dreams and Green Day - American Idiot. I love these albums today, but it was the production which made me give them a thorough listen!

Shrill, muddy and/or overly saturated highgain guitars is a no-go for me, which means a lot of classic death, grind and black metal is off limit area for me. I like clarity to the extreme (...and I guess that's why I fell so instantly in love with Periphery?)

 

[SerratedSkies]

@thread/op

Pinch Harmonics. Am I the only person who hates them? Sorry if this has been mentioned in the thread already.

 

[m3l-mrq3z]

Power chords.



Jk.

Overusing the phrygian dominant mode.

 

[Captain_Awesome]

If we took everything out of songs that people hated in this thread, we'd be left with silence.

 

[tedtan]

^ Captain_Awesome

True, but for everyone who hates it here, several other people like it, too. They're just not in this thread - you only get one side of it here.