Naren said:
If the music's good enough, I can ignore it. Otherwise it annoys the crap out of me, too.
What are you listening to?
- Thread starter Goliath
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links like Ebay, Amazon, and others.
If the music's good enough, I can ignore it. Otherwise it annoys the crap out of me, too.
This site may earn a commission from merchant links like Ebay, Amazon, and others.
Drew
Forum MVP
eleven59 said:
Hatebreeder said:
Playing devil's advocate for a moment here - I think you're both right, to a certain extent. I've heard absolutely brilliabt simple songs, I've heard horrendous simple songs, I've heard horrendous senseless complex songs, and I've heard absolutely gorgeous complex music. I think it's really a question of a songwriter understanding his or her limitations on their instrument of choice, and both working within those limitations and, if possible,finding ways to make those limitations strengths.
On the "simple" side, take anything by Tom Waits - "Jesus Gonna Be Here" off Bone Machine is a perfect example. This horrible, scratchy voice, a walking upright bass line, and an occasional hacked up "slide into an E twice" note on an acoustic slide guitar, but it's so fuckin' primitive that it's just a brutally powerful performance. Meanwhile, you have Devin Townsend - Layers upon layers of interlocking washes of sound all adding up to this chaotic wall that just washes over you aqnd crushes you - the same effect is created, just from a totally different direction.
I think a perfect example of "making your weaknesses strengths" in songwriting is Nick Drake's "Cello Song." It's on my short list of favorite songs ever written, worth a download to anyone unfamiliar. It's just a fingerstyle acoustic guitar, a vocal, a cello, and some hand percussion. Nick was a rhythmically solid, if not overly complex, fingerstylist, but he wasn't blessed with what anyone would call a "powerful" voice. So, you've got this driving, percussive 3-chord I-IV-V (though I think the V is inverted over the 5th, so maybe like a ii would be a better representation), with a haunting cello melody in the background, some minimalist hand drum and tamborine stuff in the background, and this haunting, airy vocal drifting over the top. Add in some great lyrics, and it's just a perfectly executed performance.
Food for thought...
-D
Same. except a few examples, i dont listen to any of the fantasy bands. Songs about dragons, kings, wizards, elves, etc. Piss me off.eaeolian said:
Also, Drew -- You make some good points-- A complex band to add to that list -- Cryptopsy. If for nothing else than the None So Vile album.. that album just did wonders for me. Also, Cynic too(sean malone's original band).
Naren
OldschoolGhettostyle
HateBreeder said:
Same here. Although I find it much more funny than actually pissing me off. I'm more in the "Ha ha. Grow up!" mindset than the "These fucking bastards must die at the edge of my 8-foot long battleax I had sharpened for just such an occasion" mindset.
And I agree with the music thing. There are a lot of very very simple songs that I absolutely love. In fact, there is one song that I can think of where the intro, verse, and chorus are composed of just 4 chords. The bridge is just 2 chords and a walkup. No solo, nothing complicated. But I love it.
Good music is good music. I happen to really like listening to complicated music with awesome solos, but I also really like really simple music (my favorite style of music used to be hardcore punk. It is still a style of music that I very much like - especially post-hardcore punk - although post-hardcore punk can be kind of complicated, as well as some hardcore punk.)
Naren
OldschoolGhettostyle
HateBreeder said:
Oh, come on. Your time is not that precious. I'm sure you waste so much time waiting for things, watching useless stuff on TV, watching a bad movie, etc.. Listening to a really stupid Fantasy band song is something you can talk about later in an enjoyable jokable fashion. "Oh, have you ever heard Demon Slayer X of the Frozen Plain? They had lyrics about..."
Granted I could agree if you listened to the whole album that it'd be 1 hour of your life that you can't get back that you could have spent listening to something better. But 3 1/2 minutes is nothing.
Of course, I'm reading into what you said a little too deep.
Drew
Forum MVP
HateBreeder said:
You know, Cynic's been on the "to check out" list for ages - I just have a hard time believing anyone who could write something as great as "emergent" could write a bad album. I've heard a few clips that didn't floor me, but hell, it's Sean Malone. Scratch that, it's Sean Fucking Malone. The man is genius.
-D
Naren
OldschoolGhettostyle
HateBreeder said:
I completely agree. Gwar has some pretty funny lyrics. But, I find it so pathetic and funny that they are so serious about such incredibly cheesy lyrics. It's almost like the kids who played D&D as kids never really grew. They still listen to nothing but Ronnie James Dio, early 80's fantasy metal bands, and play believe themselves to be in some European middle ages fantasy...
In a way, it's kind of sad.
Drew said:
It boggles my mind that you are still waiting on this. GO GET IT, MAN!
Naren said:
Having met several of the bigger bands of this style, I'd say you're not being cynical enough. Some really get into this stuff, but others (most) recognize that it's a pathway to an audience - I know people who WON'T buy metal discs unless they have sword and elf crap happening. It never ceases to amaze me...
Regarding the whole idea of complex vs. simple songs, I agree completely that a good song is just a good song. When originally bringing up Metallica, I pointed to the complex arrangements as an indicator to the level of effort they were putting into their music. Just as others have pointed out, it seems like they just don't care anymore. If they were smart, they would make an art of not caring, and write a bunch of songs about it.
And regarding simple songs, look at anything by The Pixies. I mean, the lyrics make no sense, and the skill required to play any of the instruments is very low, but the songs just work. It's all related to the amount of emotion you put into the song...
And regarding simple songs, look at anything by The Pixies. I mean, the lyrics make no sense, and the skill required to play any of the instruments is very low, but the songs just work. It's all related to the amount of emotion you put into the song...
Naren
OldschoolGhettostyle
mazafaka said:
The Pixies rock ("Where's My Mind?" is such a cool song). And early Metallica is just awesome. I just watched the live versions of "Sanitarium (Welcome Home)", "For Whom The Bell Tolls", "Metal Militia", and a few others - recorded from 1983-1986 and it was pure energy AWESOMENESS. Then, for comparison, I watched a live performance of "St. Anger" from around 2003 and just stared. It's almost like James stole Kirk's soloing and locked it in a box and said "we don't do solos anymore"...
Drew
Forum MVP
sure, send it over and I'll give it a listen. 
Today, it's...
Nevermore - Dead Heart In a Dead World
Ion Dissonance - Solace
Nevermore - Dead Heart In a Dead World
Ion Dissonance - Solace
Dark Tranquillity
Gothenburg Guitarist
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2005
- Messages
- 37
- Reaction score
- 0
In Flames - The jester race
BTBAM - Alaska
The Red Chord - FTiRD
BTBAM - Alaska
The Red Chord - FTiRD
Drew
Forum MVP
Haha, back on topic, eh?
Buckethead, "Colma." Colma = awesomeness.
Buckethead, "Colma." Colma = awesomeness.
I've heard Cynic's album. It's not bad. The mix is terrible (though I hear the new re-mixed version is better) and the "vocals" (you know the ones I mean) take some getting used to, but once I got past that there's some really good playing there. I'll have to give it another listen for sure.
Though, I can't hum a single tune off the album from memory, which goes back to my songwriting arguement
Seriously though, I admire technically skilled musicians and think that it's cool that they can play really well. But music isn't a sport, and I can only take full-speed shredding nonsense for so long. My ranking for music goes:
1) Bands who can play really well AND write good songs
2) Bands who can write good songs
3) Bands who can play really well
My favourite bands do both, my lesser favourite bands only do one, and the bands I listen to occasionally do the third.
Though, I can't hum a single tune off the album from memory, which goes back to my songwriting arguement
Seriously though, I admire technically skilled musicians and think that it's cool that they can play really well. But music isn't a sport, and I can only take full-speed shredding nonsense for so long. My ranking for music goes:
1) Bands who can play really well AND write good songs
2) Bands who can write good songs
3) Bands who can play really well
My favourite bands do both, my lesser favourite bands only do one, and the bands I listen to occasionally do the third.
