What Did I Just Buy? (Are Axis Pickups Really This Good?)

[kleinenenten]

So, for the past few months I've had my eye on an old Ibanez RG7321 at my local Music Go Round. It was in great shape, and had the Gibraltar bridge I preferred. It was more than I wanted to spend, so I just kept waiting as I didn't NEED it. The price kept slowly lowering as well, so that was nice! Anyway, after selling some gear locally, I decided that yesterday was the day, so I jumped at it. It sounded a little different at the store, but I attributed that to the amp, as they didn't have anything close to my rig. I got it home, and this thing screams! As I inspected it closer, I thought it may have been upgraded, as I thought the pickups are different than the other (older) 7321s I've seen. But the pictures of the stock pickups look identical to what I have. Are the Axis pickups really this good? I was going to upgrade the stock ones, assuming they were terrible, but I'm loving this tone. Some of the strings are a bit duller than I'd prefer when playing clean, but it's only the colored ones, so I'm assuming that's the reason. The Low B sounds great. And everything sounds excellent when run through my dirt pedals. I've attached a picture of the neck pickup for comparison, but the bridge is identical. Tonally, these pickups seem to be between my RG7321 with a Black Winter set and my ARZ307 with a Nazgul/Sentient set, which is exactly what I was going to do pickup-wise to upgrade this guitar. It's got a full enough bass response (more than the N/S, less than the BW) without getting muddy or sounding thin, and also has enough high end treble to cut without being harsh.

I DO know it's been wired differently, seemingly as independent volume knobs, as minimizing either knob completely mutes the guitar. I'm no electronics wizard, but that doesn't seem like Master Volume/Master Tone to me, but it also seems odd that minimizing one would mute the guitar entirely. Is that supposed to be how it works? So that's been changed, as well as a pretty solid setup since there are springs keeping the pickups nice and close to the strings. I tried to compare to my other RG7321 which is a similar year, but I bought that used with a Black Winter set in it, so I have no real comparison. The other RG7321s I've played all had stock pickups, but it's been nearly a decade since I've played them, so it's not exactly fresh in my mind. My other RG7321 definitely has the Master Volume/Master Tone setup.

Would it be worth it to add any other features to this guitar, or to revert it back to stock wiring? I'm not sure why I'd need dual volume (if it's currently functioning as intended, at least!), and if I change the wiring, I may as well think about adding a coil tap or something. Or do Axis pickups not do that? Really, I'm pretty much a newbie when it comes to upgrading guitars as I'm definitely more a bassist. But I'm loving this thing and had plans for it. Since I love it so much as is, those plans may be put on hold except to maybe re-wire it to stock, if that's worth it. I've got a buddy that can solder and do it quickly, though I'd need to know which pots to buy etc.

Thanks for any info, everyone!

 

[Ordacleaphobia]

Can't comment for sure but there are lots of aftermarket pickup manufacturers that don't leave a label or marking on the top of the bobbin. It's totally possible someone threw some gassed up pickups in there at some point, that information got lost along the way, and you scored a sweet deal.
If I were you I'd pop one of them out the next time you change strings. There's usually labels or markings of some sort on the bottom that will help you ID the pickup.

 

[ArtDecade]

... omg .... those are Steve Vai's prototypes that he hand wired himself. Never before in the history of magnets has there been more ungodly tone.

 

[kleinenenten]

Can't comment for sure but there are lots of aftermarket pickup manufacturers that don't leave a label or marking on the top of the bobbin. It's totally possible someone threw some gassed up pickups in there at some point, that information got lost along the way, and you scored a sweet deal.
If I were you I'd pop one of them out the next time you change strings. There's usually labels or markings of some sort on the bottom that will help you ID the pickup.

I had thought of doing that, but I know that I'd never be able to get those springs back in place. I've tried on previous guitars! It seems like I got a sweet deal as far as I can tell, because I find it very hard to believe these are stock. I've never heard stock pickups sound like this.

 

[SalsaWood]

Safe bet somebody swapped the pickups if it has been rewired. If you like how it sounds and plays I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[gh0styboi]

You could pull one of them next time you restring like suggested above, but honestly, I'd call it a happy bit of good fortune and just enjoy the dope pickups, man.

 

[kleinenenten]

Safe bet somebody swapped the pickups if it has been rewired. If you like how it sounds and plays I wouldn't worry about it.

You could pull one of them next time you restring like suggested above, but honestly, I'd call it a happy bit of good fortune and just enjoy the dope pickups, man.

Yeah, for now, I think that's the plan. These sound great so far! I can spend that ~$150 on some other gear. Working on filling up some vacant utility spots on my pedal boards like tuners and cabsim/DI, so the extra money will help!

 

[odibrom]

If the guitars has been rewired, different pots might do the trick of reviving dull pickups.

Another possibility is the pickups may have been rewound and in that regard, who knows what they are now.

Question, those double volumes kill the guitar's sound in whatever pickup is choosen or only in the mix positions...?

 

[kleinenenten]

If the guitars has been rewired, different pots might do the trick of reviving dull pickups.

Another possibility is the pickups may have been rewound and in that regard, who knows what they are now.

Question, those double volumes kill the guitar's sound in whatever pickup is choosen or only in the mix positions...?

They only kill the volume completely when a single knob is at minimum. Otherwise, I noticed very little change. That being said, I didn't take a lot of time to finagle with it. I usually just dime the volume, but I was trying to get a little more treble out of the pickups so I was trying to see if the "tone" was low. But there was no tone knob! Once I saw that, I tested both knobs, and they each completely silence the guitar when one of them is at minimum, even if the other is at maximum.

I really don't think it's the pickups that make it dull - I think it's the strings. The one string that isn't colored is plenty bright - you can hear a large audible difference when I change strings. So I don't think pots will do anything.

 

[odibrom]

They only kill the volume completely when a single knob is at minimum. Otherwise, I noticed very little change. That being said, I didn't take a lot of time to finagle with it. I usually just dime the volume, but I was trying to get a little more treble out of the pickups so I was trying to see if the "tone" was low. But there was no tone knob! Once I saw that, I tested both knobs, and they each completely silence the guitar when one of them is at minimum, even if the other is at maximum.

I really don't think it's the pickups that make it dull - I think it's the strings. The one string that isn't colored is plenty bright - you can hear a large audible difference when I change strings. So I don't think pots will do anything.

I was asking if the pots killing sound only happens when the pickups are mixed versus in all switch positions.

If the first, you'll have dedicated volumes, one for each pickup.

If the second, you'll have 2 parallel master volumes, which is a weird option or probably something someone failed doing and didn't bothered to repair.

... but if you dig the pickups, you dig the pickups, go rock them hard.

 

[AwakenTheSkies]

Why not take a look at the back of the pickups, and also measure them with a multimeter? See if they are what you think they are ..

 

[kleinenenten]

I was asking if the pots killing sound only happens when the pickups are mixed versus in all switch positions.

If the first, you'll have dedicated volumes, one for each pickup.

If the second, you'll have 2 parallel master volumes, which is a weird option or probably something someone failed doing and didn't bothered to repair.

... but if you dig the pickups, you dig the pickups, go rock them hard.

Ah, gotcha. Check the pot issue with different settings on the pickup selector switch. Not sure why I didn't catch that the first time. Not sure - I didn't think to check that. I'll have to take a look tomorrow when I can play a bit again. So if I understand correctly, if I have them mixed (in the center switch position) and the volume completely dies when I minimize one knob, then it's wired correctly? But if it happens in all positions something is wrong? Sorry if I don't get it, I'm totally new at guitar electronics and how all this actually works. Thanks for your patience!

Why not take a look at the back of the pickups, and also measure them with a multimeter? See if they are what you think they are ..

Mostly because I don't have a multimeter, don't know what they should be, and wouldn't be able to get the springs in the pickups back in correctly. I've tried to do that with a previous guitar and it just didn't work for me!

 

[kleinenenten]

I was asking if the pots killing sound only happens when the pickups are mixed versus in all switch positions.

If the first, you'll have dedicated volumes, one for each pickup.

If the second, you'll have 2 parallel master volumes, which is a weird option or probably something someone failed doing and didn't bothered to repair.

... but if you dig the pickups, you dig the pickups, go rock them hard.

Just did a quick and quiet test. No matter the switch position, if one of the knobs is at minimum (even if the other is at maximum), the guitar is silent. This holds true for all knob positions, and for each knob, no matter which is at maximum and which is at minimum. So if I understand correctly, it's the second option, and is typically considered a "problem". Is there a diagram or something I can look at? I have a friend who can solder (and I've dabbled, though it's been a while). If it's just moving a connection or two, that can probably be done pretty easily I would hope.

 

[sonoftheoldnorth]

Look at the electronics to see how it's wired and pull the strings off and look at the pickups, already. Then report back.

 

[odibrom]

Just did a quick and quiet test. No matter the switch position, if one of the knobs is at minimum (even if the other is at maximum), the guitar is silent. This holds true for all knob positions, and for each knob, no matter which is at maximum and which is at minimum. So if I understand correctly, it's the second option, and is typically considered a "problem". Is there a diagram or something I can look at? I have a friend who can solder (and I've dabbled, though it's been a while). If it's just moving a connection or two, that can probably be done pretty easily I would hope.

If that happens on all switch settings, you have 2 master volumes. It might be designed as so, but most likely someone failed at the wiring schematic...

 

[kleinenenten]

Here are some gutshots. What's this tell you guys? Looks a bit messy to me on the switch, but I couldn't do any better. The red wire looks like it's either got a little solder on the outside of the wire or had the insulation burned off close a bit to the switch. I think this looks like someone's messed with it for sure, and it seems like maybe they wanted two master volumes? Seems odd to me.

The pots are labeled B500K Cor-Tek (pot closest to switch) and D500K Cor-Tek (farther from switch) if that tells anybody anything. I'm guessing those are original, as I know Cor-Tek is Cort, and Cort makes a lot of Ibanez guitars and basses. Now I'm wondering - maybe the original switch went bad and the wiring got screwed up when it was re-assembled? I know a LONG time ago I had used pickups put in a guitar and thought one was bad, but it turned out to be the switch going bad and not passing signal. Took a LOT of trial and error to figure that out, as it originally just seemed like a bad pickup, but the switch magically failed the exact same time that I was swapping them. That was also a stock Ibanez switch.

For those of you insisting that I just remove the pickups - I'd take out the pickups and physically look at the bottoms, but I can't get them back in. I've tried that in the past, and it didn't work for me. For a guitar that I'm really digging, I don't feel like I should mess it up, and then have to take it to a tech. But the next time I get it looked at, I'll definitely get the volume knob/s issue fixed!

Thank you all for your help! If/when I ever figure out what these pickups are, I'll certainly report back. For now, I'll just enjoy the guitar and debate when to get it checked out. Maybe have a local tech look at it when I decide which strings it will wear, just to give it a good look over and get properly intonated etc.

 

[sonoftheoldnorth]

For those of you insisting that I just remove the pickups - I'd take out the pickups and physically look at the bottoms, but I can't get them back in. I've tried that in the past, and it didn't work for me.

...Whaaaaat?

 

[ArtDecade]

Here are some gutshots. What's this tell you guys? Looks a bit messy to me on the switch, but I couldn't do any better. The red wire looks like it's either got a little solder on the outside of the wire or had the insulation burned off close a bit to the switch. I think this looks like someone's messed with it for sure, and it seems like maybe they wanted two master volumes? Seems odd to me.

The pots are labeled B500K Cor-Tek (pot closest to switch) and D500K Cor-Tek (farther from switch) if that tells anybody anything. I'm guessing those are original, as I know Cor-Tek is Cort, and Cort makes a lot of Ibanez guitars and basses. Now I'm wondering - maybe the original switch went bad and the wiring got screwed up when it was re-assembled? I know a LONG time ago I had used pickups put in a guitar and thought one was bad, but it turned out to be the switch going bad and not passing signal. Took a LOT of trial and error to figure that out, as it originally just seemed like a bad pickup, but the switch magically failed the exact same time that I was swapping them. That was also a stock Ibanez switch.

For those of you insisting that I just remove the pickups - I'd take out the pickups and physically look at the bottoms, but I can't get them back in. I've tried that in the past, and it didn't work for me. For a guitar that I'm really digging, I don't feel like I should mess it up, and then have to take it to a tech. But the next time I get it looked at, I'll definitely get the volume knob/s issue fixed!

Thank you all for your help! If/when I ever figure out what these pickups are, I'll certainly report back. For now, I'll just enjoy the guitar and debate when to get it checked out. Maybe have a local tech look at it when I decide which strings it will wear, just to give it a good look over and get properly intonated etc.

... two things. First, stock pickups can sound great. Second, if you want to know what the pickups are, take them out and see if they have markings. You are acting as if they are magical and that a slightest touch will make them lose their powers. They are pickups. You adjust them. If you can't, find some adult supervision and learn how.

 

[kleinenenten]

I'm aware that pickups are not magical, and that they can certainly be removed and replaced with no loss of tone. I've done that before in a guitar with pickup rings. It was slightly challenging, but I did it. I've also tried to put springs in a guitar that needed them, that did NOT have pickup rings. That one I could not do. If any of you have any tips or tricks, I'm all ears. I'd love to be more competent at maintaining my gear, but the condescension is unnecessary. We were all newbies at one point. I'm actively trying to learn, and I know that many of you are much more knowledgeable on these subjects than I am.

 

[PerfectCandor]

I'm going to be honest, I can't see in those pics super well... I don't really know how you can mess up the volumes like that with a switch.

If there wasn't a switch, it would be like that because they might have been wired "normally" with terminal 1 as the signal from the pickup to the pot, 2 as the output from the pot and 3 as ground. This sends all signal to ground when the pot is minimized so each wired like this would function as parallel master volumes, and a simple fix could be switching what potentiometer terminals function as input and output. If you wire so that terminal 1 is the output, 2 is the signal from pickup and 3 is still ground, it will rather move the wiper from sending the pickup signal to the pot output and ground. As long as the ground is the same it would function as normal but leave the knobs to their respective pickups rather than sending all signal to ground when either is turned all the way down.

That might be worth a shot but again I don't think that's the issue if there is a switch, nor can I identify why you would just want 2 volumes if you have a switch. It almost sounds more like they just wired a tone pot to ground without a capacitor? Regardless, that's how you can foolproof the independent volumes if you want, but it also might be worth getting your buddy to put a tone knob in there with one volume.