What's your take on time travel?

[RiksRiks]

So lately I've been watching a lot of videos about time travelers like John Titor and the stuff from ApexTV (entertaining but obviously not intended to look real) so it made me curious about wether fellow OSSers believe in this kind of phenomena or not.

I personally think some kind of time travel is possible, since time is just another part of our reality. Wether it is like in the movies, I'm not sure. But in one of the videos I was watching, probably John Titor's (who was probably also a hoax) somebody explained that when you travel back in time you technically create an alternate timeline thus, not really altering the past but creating a new reality completely separate, and I thought this was really interesting.

Also, as part of this thread, since this is OT, what would you tell your guitarist (or whatever you play) from the past if you could travel back in time? Feel free to quote old threads as well, although I don't know if that counts as necrobumping.

 

[jaxadam]

Completely possible, but only in one direction. The law of entropy S >= 0 sadly points the arrow of time only forward, as we currently understand. This is an ongoing unknown physics problem as the low entropy state of the early universe is trying to be understood.

 

[TedEH]

My entirely unscientific view is that time travel is impossible on the basis that time is nothing more than an arbitrary measurement of sequences of events. Not to say that it "doesn't exist", but it's sort of like how you can't "travel in the 4th or 5th dimension". It might might sense mathematically, but it's not describing a tangible thing to be traveled upon.

This is a VERY unscientific view though, and I'm sure someone will immediately tell me that I'm incorrect and that relativity says otherwise, or something like that.

 

[DudeManBrother]

My entirely unscientific view is that time travel is impossible on the basis that time is nothing more than an arbitrary measurement of sequences of events. Not to say that it "doesn't exist", but it's sort of like how you can't "travel in the 4th or 5th dimension". It might might sense mathematically, but it's not describing a tangible thing to be traveled upon.

This is a VERY unscientific view though, and I'm sure someone will immediately tell me that I'm incorrect and that relativity says otherwise, or something like that.

I think your unscientific view is spot on. You can’t render an abstract idea like time into a physical reality for manipulation. It’s In Fictio; and while it may be useful for a lot of applications, it’s still imaginary.

 

[spudmunkey]

I'm a time traveler, actually. I'm currently going 1hph (hour per hour). For example, this post is from my past self, and every new photo of me is still a photo of me when I was younger.

My favorite movie is 12 Monkeys, and I love the TV show of the same name even though Madeline Stowe is in it, playing a different character for some inexplicable reason, and it's hard as fuck to follow with such long periods of time between seasons. Sadly, no conclusion.

 

[jaxadam]

I think your unscientific view is spot on. You can’t render an abstract idea like time into a physical reality for manipulation. It’s In Fictio; and while it may be useful for a lot of applications, it’s still imaginary.

You would like the book “The Order of Time” by Rovelli, which posits time doesn’t even exist, and is a useless variable at the quantum level, especially when rendering the core aspects of Loop Quantum Gravity, tying General Relativity to Quantum.

 

[Demiurge]

There's probably a lot of hubris to say, barely a blink of an eye into this technological era in humanity, that we've got all the rules of the game figured-out. Counter-intuitively, though, I think sometimes our tendency to try to foist sci-fi tropes onto scientific inquiry (like, the whole "our universe is a simulation" deal) we might be defeating ourselves by imposing our concepts onto nature rather than letting our observation develop concepts.

And, what would I tell my younger guitar-playing self:
(1) Don't sell [certain pieces of gear].
(2) Stop procrastinating- you won't necessarily have time in the future to do everything you want to do.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

man if i could time travel i'd just end up pulling a biff from back to the future 2 and become disgustingly wealthy by buying rare guitars and investing in yahoo/etc before the dotcom bubble, and then of course leveraging it into apple/fb/bitcoin/ selling uranium to the libyans

 

[RiksRiks]

I think sometimes our tendency to try to foist sci-fi tropes onto scientific inquiry (like, the whole "our universe is a simulation" deal) we might be defeating ourselves by imposing our concepts onto nature rather than letting our observation develop concepts.

I've never thought of it like this, and now that you mention it, it makes total sense. Sort of like a bias or the way we tend to see human faces in our cereal or trees.

man if i could time travel i'd just end up pulling a biff from back to the future 2 and become disgustingly wealthy by buying rare guitars and investing in yahoo/etc before the dotcom bubble, and then of course leveraging it into apple/fb/bitcoin/ selling uranium to the libyans

But what if by traveling to the past you create an alternate timeline where the guitars you brought turn to be the shittiest and when you post your NGD in SSO everybody starts laughing?? huh??

On a serious note, just imagine having access to all that information, I'd be overwhelmed to say the least. Probably wouldn't even take advantage of it properly.

 

[Demiurge]

The idea of pulling a "Biff" is appealing, but it certainly has its limitations in appeal. You'd be alone, you'd have to deal with the technological downgrade, and it would be kind of maddening. I know that some people hate uncertainty- but imagine having none. You'll know the good things that will happen without surprise, but you'll know the bad things that will happen, too, and maybe not be able to do anything about it.

 

[GatherTheArsenal]

I love when threads like this one pop up on my new posts feed. #getyopopcorn

My :
I think as long as we perceive time as linear, then attempting to understand time travel, let alone time travel into the past, is going to remain somewhat difficult for now. More so when we still don't have a firm grasp on all matter in our universe (including black matter which remains a mystery) and how to manipulate their properties to our advantage. Without that kind of broad universal understanding I think there are too many unknown factors (i.e. unknown unknowns) that are in play which we simply are blind to for now, which loosens our grasp on this kind of topic.

Another point of perception is whether we think time travel works as a matter of physical placement/displacement (i.e. moving physical matter on a linear scale from time x to time y using rudimentary physics like inertia, velocity, etc.), or whether time travel is more metaphysical (i.e. observing time on a multi linear scale without actually physically being present in time x or time y).

It's really interesting

But i think we are going to be able to view time (somehow) long before we will be able to physically move through or alter it. The former just seems more likely to me, I dunno.

 

[USMarine75]

My first degree was in physics... so from what I remember...

The "arrow of time" points only forward due to entropy being asymmetrical and because of the energy needed to overcome the activation energy barrier in reverse, which would be ginormous. i.e. Theoretically, it is equally possible to unscramble a cooked egg back to being a whole egg, but the energy required to reverse the process for every particle of the product of that reaction back to the reactant stage would be infinitely great.

The second law of thermodynamics says that entropy, or disorder, tends to increase over time, which is why everything in the world around us appears to unfold forward in time.

So travelling back in time would take a ridiculous amount of energy to overcome the activation energy barrier. Also, although time travel might roll backwards, it wouldn't roll anything faster than it rolls forward - thus you might be able to live backwards but not jump backwards.

That said, time is a construct and perception of (space and) time is relative.

Check out some of the stuff from Minkowski (Space-time continuum) and Feynman or for modern interpretations read Brian Greene and Penrose.

http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Time's_arrow_and_Boltzmann's_entropy
^One of the best summaries I've ever come across

 

[TedEH]

whether we think time travel works as a matter of physical placement/displacement [...] or whether time travel is more metaphysical

I always assume that when people talk about time travel, they mean in a physical sense - to either reverse events that have occurred, or to place themselves such that they are experiencing and interacting with events that have already occurred. It's the science-fiction idea of what time is: A plane/dimension to be traveled along, much like you would move through space. As if the universe is recorded on tape, to be played back and rewound at our whim.

Without doing any real research or googling, my assumption would be that science looks at time as a measurement or an observation -> so when someone says "relativity proves we can make things advance through time faster!" "Something something time dilation!" I assume they mean that we can manipulate the observation of a sequence of events -> not that any actual manipulation of the properties of the universe has taken place.

 

[DudeManBrother]

I think reality of presence is more fascinating than the theory of time travel. We think in terms of yesterday, today, and tomorrow: but we’ve never experienced tomorrow. We go to sleep tonight, we awake this morning. The only tie to yesterday is memory. The past is a fallible memory and the whim of a historian’s pen. A simple suggestion in a crowd can often dictate the collective memory.

We spend our entire lives mentally focused on the past or future. We study past events to be better prepared for what might come in the future. We dwell on the gear we wish we never sold, or the amp we have to get. This holiday is done so let’s get ready for the next; this sport is finished for the season, but this sport is beginning etc. We seemingly spend all day distracting ourselves from the only truth which is right now.

 

[GatherTheArsenal]

I always assume that when people talk about time travel, they mean in a physical sense - to either reverse events that have occurred, or to place themselves such that they are experiencing and interacting with events that have already occurred. It's the science-fiction idea of what time is: A plane/dimension to be traveled along, much like you would move through space. As if the universe is recorded on tape, to be played back and rewound at our whim.

Without doing any real research or googling, my assumption would be that science looks at time as a measurement or an observation -> so when someone says "relativity proves we can make things advance through time faster!" "Something something time dilation!" I assume they mean that we can manipulate the observation of a sequence of events -> not that any actual manipulation of the properties of the universe has taken place.

True I think the typical science fiction view is more along the lines of what comes to mind when most of us think of time travel. Though i still see that as a far fetch in terms of what would likely be more acheivable first (if at all) in our future.

I'm no scientist but it just seems to me, as a hunch, that we may likely first tap into something in our brains which would allow us to mentally travel through time, long before we would achieve the ability to physically displace ourselves and end up in a different time.

If we agree on the notion that our bodies are nothing without our minds - where a body is viewed essentially as a transport vehicle which is more or less disposable as long as the brain/consciousness is intact, then metaphysical displacement fits the definition of "time travel" and would be more likely in my (layman's) opinion.

Though even then, as we both kind of alluded to, I think observing different time periods through metaphysical displacement would be more likely to be achievable first rather than actually being conscious in a different time, let alone physically being present. Sort of like a mental tourist, where say person x's consciousness travels in time and momentarily piggybacks on person y's consciousness.

This opinion obviously is pure fantasy at this point, typed by a bearded dude sat on a IKEA couch in his boxers sipping scotch with one hand, petting his pug with the other and watching Ola Englund's 2019 NAMM Vlog so you know... grains of salt and all that

p.s. kinda want Ola's long swedish hair...

 

[TedEH]

By that description I'd be hesitant to call it time travel, compared to just a very vivid recollection.

 

[Lemonbaby]

So travelling back in time would take a ridiculous amount of energy to overcome the activation energy barrier.

No problem at all. I have more than 20 power outlets in my house!

 

[USMarine75]

No problem at all. I have more than 20 power outlets in my house!

Problem solved. Or you can get a Tardis. Whichever.

 

[Jason B]

Smells like a tonewood thread in here.

 

[RiksRiks]

I'm overwhelmed by the very scientific points of view that came to this thread, I don't have enough theoretical background to investigate further but surely it made me more curious, special mention to Demiurge's comment!

We spend our entire lives mentally focused on the past or future. We study past events to be better prepared for what might come in the future. We dwell on the gear we wish we never sold, or the amp we have to get. This holiday is done so let’s get ready for the next; this sport is finished for the season, but this sport is beginning etc. We seemingly spend all day distracting ourselves from the only truth which is right now.

I think originally we may have used these words as reference, but now it's like they are a completely different reality, when I talk about the past sometimes I feel so disconnected that I feel like it wasn't me living all those events.

Also, sometimes I try to focus on the moment and get irritated at things happening so slowly, then some kind of guilt invades me because of me actually wanting to live in fast forward instead of enjoying being alive. It's a very confusing feeling.