Where do musicians stand financially?

[TreWatson]

You get money for playing at a church?

I've been playing at churches for 8 years and I've never gotten a dime.

it's not much, but we're hired musicians.

for playing for like 4 weeks, i make maybe 100 bucks. and honestly i dont mind that.

the way to make money in the music industry is to have a job, plain and simple. haha

Edit: I'm also a theory student of Dr. Thomas Delaine, which kinda carries a little bit of clout (though not a ton)

 

[Mindcrime1204]

search an old thread of mine called "how much money do metal bands make in a year"

pretty good read also

 

[Stealthdjentstic]

You will not make money playing what you want to play.

 

[lookralphsbak]

You will not make money playing what you want to play.

I forgot what the statistic is but it might be 1/20 bands will not make it. Think of how many new metal bands have made it big (major label status). Granted most major labels are signing metal bands I can only think of 2 that are actually making enough to play music full time without needing a job... Lamb of God and Mastodon. I guess KSE is a major label band since they RR was bought out but I know Adam has more than 1 band and Howard and Adam do production for a lot of bands. Regardless, very few bands can survive 100% on music without having to play 300+ days a year. Last year I saw Warbringer 5 or 6 times in NYC through out the year.

 

[Demiurge]

Is it just me, or has the dream scenario of "discovered and signed by a large record label" simply just been replaced by the same dream of "meteoric rise to success not because of touring but because of the internetz"?

Every few years, I stumble-upon that Steve Albini "The Problem With Music" essay, which kind of throws water on the average band's aspirations of making it big (or making even a little money) back in the pre-home-recording-and-internet-distro era. It's kind of dated now, but I can definitely see some variation of it eventually surfacing that addresses what's happening now.

 

[Explorer]

I think if you go into it with the attitude "you wont make any money" then you probably wont.

Even better, look at it like this:

If you go into it with the attitude "you will make lots of money" then you be one of the majority of bands who *still* don't make lots of money, or even a living wage.

Magical thinking won't manifest those big payoffs; there are huge amounts of people who think they will make money, but still don't.

Those bands who make big money performing are the exception (maybe 1% or less of all bands who start out with the idea of making it), and nowhere near the rule.

 

[GuitaristOfHell]

Like me probably... selling gear for more gear because you have no money lol.

 

[Rick]

Last year I saw Warbringer 5 or 6 times in NYC through out the year.

I've seen After The Burial, I think, 9 times since 2009 and I've missed them coming through the Austin/SA area twice.

 

[pineappleman]

Is it just me, or has the dream scenario of "discovered and signed by a large record label" simply just been replaced by the same dream of "meteoric rise to success not because of touring but because of the internetz"?

Pretty much.

 

[TravisMontgomery]

Spacepants, since you mentioned us in the original post I thought I might as well chime in .

I make pretty much nothing being in Threat Signal. You could make more in one month at a regular job than I do from the band in one year. We all have day jobs when we come home tours.

Threat Signal seems like kind of an exception....even though I'm in the band I kind of see the band as being the definition of epic fail haha. Our business/management team behind us has ruined the band thus far in my opinion. I think the band should be a bit further along than it is at this point. As in having a bigger fan base, bigger shows, etc. We're changing a lot of things about the band for the third album (sound, management, etc.), so hopefully this will give us the push we really need.

So....if you are planning on being in a metal band then don't expect to make much money, if any for a while!!

 

[Rick]

Our business/management team behind us has ruined the band thus far in my opinion. I think the band should be a bit further along than it is at this point. As in having a bigger fan base, bigger shows, etc. We're changing a lot of things about the band for the third album (sound, management, etc.), so hopefully this will give us the push we really need.

Damn, I had no idea. Here's hoping the new changes will bring better possibilities to you guys.

 

[TravisMontgomery]

Damn, I had no idea. Here's hoping the new changes will bring better possibilities to you guys.

Yeah man. That is one thing people really need to look for and research if they are planning on being in a band too.

Our manager is an entertainment lawyer that well....also manages us. His boss, Chris Taylor, has managed bands such as Sum 41, Nickelback, Nelly, Three Days Grace, Alexisonfire, Billy Talent, etc. So it's not like we're with bad management or anything....just bad for us! You need to find the right team for your band.

I remember a meeting we had last year about things we need to do for Threat Signal. We brought up that metal fans really like to see the technical aspect of the playing, and that we need to be getting in magazines like Guitar World, in games like Guitar Hero, etc. Their response was "Really?? Do people actually want to see that stuff? Doesn't seem like it would help you much....but we'll look into it". I believe that we're the only metal band with TMKO/Last Gang, and it has kinda of hurt us being with a company thats main focus is pop/rock bands.

 

[mountainjam]

Even better, look at it like this:

If you go into it with the attitude "you will make lots of money" then you be one of the majority of bands who *still* don't make lots of money, or even a living wage.

Magical thinking won't manifest those big payoffs; there are huge amounts of people who think they will make money, but still don't.

Those bands who make big money performing are the exception (maybe 1% or less of all bands who start out with the idea of making it), and nowhere near the rule.

The majority of people that think they will make it huge, and don't probably never had any real talent to begin with and were in it for the wrong reasons. And im not talking about magic here, but much greater things than being in a semi succesfull band have been achieved by determined people. I think a big factor nobody is considering is a large portion of the most talented musicians don't want to live the lifestyle, so they go other directions and we are stuck with shitty music from so many un-original bands. I guess my main feeling on this is if you really are talented at music, dont start out with such lowered expectations.

 

[MTech]

Glad Travis chimed in here cause I knew from talking to him before it was like that for awhile...especially growing up with their old drummer. Which Travis at least you are 21+ now so they won't kick you out of venues after sound check and before/after you play!!

But while you guys are on it even huge bands have that issue till (and if) they get their shit straight. When Linkin Park had just blown up with their 1st album and One Step Closer was all over the place they were only making $150 a gig after all their expenses.... When you're doing the metal thing like so many of the bands people on broads like these seem to think are making bank really they're barely making anything and a lot of the time their Tour Manager and even sometimes the techs are being paid even more then each band member.

 

[Explorer]

The majority of people that think they will make it huge, and don't probably never had any real talent to begin with and were in it for the wrong reasons. And im not talking about magic here, but much greater things than being in a semi succesfull band have been achieved by determined people. I think a big factor nobody is considering is a large portion of the most talented musicians don't want to live the lifestyle, so they go other directions and we are stuck with shitty music from so many un-original bands. I guess my main feeling on this is if you really are talented at music, dont start out with such lowered expectations.

I won't disagree that there are many people who are in bands who don't really have the talent and uniqueness of vision.

So, let's narrow that down a bit: How percentage of musicians/bands would *you* say were genuinely talented, and went into it with the idea that they would make it... and failed?

And, to take one of your driving points... if there was a track record "a large portion of the most talented musicians" not wanting to live the "lifestyle"... what do you mean by "lifestyle?" Are you possibly saying that there is a financial aspect to trying to make it?

Going further, are you also acknowledging that, even after investing all that time into it, they might not make it, as talented as you yourself are saying they are?

----

I have to admit, I'm curious about one last thing: Would you say you yourself are talented, and driving towards success? If so, it would be interesting if you let us know what band/group you play with, so we can see the results of your words in actions. It would be a nice contrast with those members here who have posted about the opposite experience... assuming, of course, that you don't think they're not talented, or that their stories of trying to break through and failing are untrue.

Cheers!

 

[scottro202]

If you really want to make some dough playing music, sell out.

I'm curious as to what you guys's definitions of "selling-out" is.

For instance, if say, Justin Bieber (You can replace him with any well-known pop star), called me up tomorrow, and asked me to play guitar in his band for the rest of eternity for a bagillion dollars a note, I wouldn't call that selling out so much as getting a good paying gig

 

[severussnape]

I think if you go into it with the attitude "you wont make any money" then you probably wont.
look at it like this. There are several self recorded and self promoted bands online that are selling albums. If you can sell 10,000 albums at $10 each, that's $100,000, plus shows and merch. Now that's def not close to making it big, but its far from homeless. Just my opinion...

Ok. So you have 100 grand.

Out of that comes fees for the studio, the producer, any "hired guns", cost of those 10,000 cd's, plus production of them.

My composition teacher broke down costs to us in class one time. I forget most of the figures, but basically, just making a record, preproduction, with no label support, can leave you nearly destitute if you aren't already financially secure.

 

[gunshow86de]

Once you get that record deal, you're guaranteed to make a milly.

 

[Lon]

Ok. So you have 100 grand.

Out of that comes fees for the studio, the producer, any "hired guns", cost of those 10,000 cd's, plus production of them.

My composition teacher broke down costs to us in class one time. I forget most of the figures, but basically, just making a record, preproduction, with no label support, can leave you nearly destitute if you aren't already financially secure.

yes... here are 2 routes, first one: do everything yourself (the bulb way),

second one: do nearly everything yourself, we recorded everything, we edited everything, we did all the organizing, we just sent the tracks to get professionally mixed and mastered for a fairly cheap price, and it turned out really well... if i multiply the costs for lets say a 12track record you get into the 3-5k figures, considering when starting out usually everyone has a dayjob this is easily provideable by 4-5 people.

I do not include stuff like computers or guitars in my costs because for real, you would have that stuff anyway...

My point short: if you're a touring musician, your finances are wrecked, but there is no big "starting out" hurdle you have to jump anymore, thanks to the internet and homerecording you can do a decent to outstanding record on a very limited budget.

This of course leads to other points (read: business) are getting way more important. Everyone has semi-decent recordings nowerdays, you have to get promotion, PR, contacts and everything else right to get somewhere, but i see this in a positive light because this trend sheds more emphasis on the quality of the music. For example im very surprised Painted In Exile is so successful with their sound

 

[KimtheButcher]

I've been in and out of live bands for a few years now, and i've just gone bankrupt since last week

We were playing twice a week and pulling about $350 AUS each gig for the group for 2-3 hours of playing; over 3 sets for each night. For me, it was only enough to cover the travel and maintenance of my gear - perhaps a packet of smokes left over after the gig and a beer or two.

In My Opinion, you do it for the love of playing music and spreading the word, and any $$ that comes from that is a huuuuuuuuuge bonus