Where do musicians stand financially?

[CynicEidolon]

Want to get successful being a musician!? Quit reading everyone else's idea on what they think it takes and go get your feet wet. It sucks at first but, EVERY business does. I read somewhere that that average business takes 3 years to turn profit. If it takes longer... Close the doors. Move on. You suck.


Stop reading this.

 

[Dead Undead]

Nearly everyone I know in my area who is a lifelong musician (most of which have toured and recorded under both record labels and self-produced records) says that it's really hard to make money doing this kind of thing. But the one they do say is, if you do decide to tour professionally, FUCK RECORD COMPANIES. They will bend you over the table, tear your pants off and shove an exploding pineapple up your bum. They cheat you in ways you never thought possible. It's actually better to get a day job and then a small part time job offering lessons or something to get going first, then start producing your own stuff. Or you could be a YouTube star. But that doesn't count for shit really.
Maybe 20-30 years ago you could get more attention with the style of music you wanna play, but not now. Nobody has any desire for creativity, they all crave mediocrity and simplicity, simply because the majority is comprised of dumbshits.

Good luck.
May the force be with you.
Live long and prosper.
And if you ever get to be as big as Dream Theater, send me some cash every now and then, okay?

 

[Lon]

including me

 

[Scar Symmetry]

Stand? I would use the word crawl.

 

[Andromalia]

I think if you go into it with the attitude "you wont make any money" then you probably wont.
look at it like this. There are several self recorded and self promoted bands online that are selling albums. If you can sell 10,000 albums at $10 each, that's $100,000, plus shows and merch. Now that's def not close to making it big, but its far from homeless. Just my opinion...

Those 100K:

-Have to cover expenses, gear, etc
-Have to be split between band members
-Do not go into your pocket directly anyway if you're a starter band with no technological background to do the recording yourselves.

That would be more or less true if you do a 100% online distribution and do all the jobs yourself in a free studio without any techs or sound guys.
Rule 1: when you start you don't make ANY money off CD sales. (Or shouldn't expect to, anyway, there are exceptions, but...they are exceptions, doh.)

Now, "musician" can mean a lot of things, if you are good enough to give lessons and actually have people come back for the second one and have enough pupils, you can get by.
If you mean "touring guitarist in only one band playing th3 Br00talz", you most likely can't, at the start anyway, barring special geographical considerations.

 

[Grimriffer]

From a Frank Mullen interview

What is something that you know now that you wouldn’t have admitted to yourself at 20, when you were going into this?

I don’t know. I look at everything that we’ve done, and I look at it like I’ve enjoyed every aspect of it. Even from the early days of touring in the vans and box trucks and everything like that. All these shows we’ve played in front of all our fans. I don’t know. I probably wouldn’t change anything. I don’t know if I’ve learned much. One thing is that you still don’t make tons of money. [Laughs] That’s one thing that I’ve definitely learned. You go from maybe playing for free or $200 or $300 a night to now, we can make some money, but it’s still nothing like where you’re like, “You could have a feature of me tomorrow on MTV Cribs and I’ll show you around my crib and I got all these cars that I’m gonna show you.” It’s not like that.

link

WEB-EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW: SUFFOCATION


Despite my guitar skills I'm still a simple university student who lives with his parents and my mom wants me to find a wife. Uncool. But I have a dream that one day... never mind my dream sucks.

 

[LamaSabachthani]

Bottom line = non-huge "heavy" bands are broke as shit.

Unless you're any of the big-names that headline festivals, it makes sense: the more esoteric types of music (read: most ERG music?) are unlikely to be mainstaging Download Festival not because they don't rock and aren't great musicians but because they literally do not appeal to most people and therefore make less money than those other bands can.

It's unfortunate but it's an inescapable truth: music that is more easily accessed (not in terms of physical availability) will always be 'bigger' than the sort of stuff most people on this site are into.

I guess at the end of the day you question whether or not you're content to be money-poor but lifestyle-rich if you can wake up every day and go out and make money (somehow) by expressing yourself and playing guitar. That is my ideal vision haha. As regards music, anyways...

 

[LamaSabachthani]

From a Frank Mullen interview




Despite my guitar skills I'm still a simple university student who lives with his parents and my mom wants me to find a wife. Uncool. But I have a dream that one day... never mind my dream sucks.

haha you may have just summarized my current existence

 

[LamaSabachthani]

Pretty much.

Do record labels even go out searching for people with A&R and sign them anymore like used to happen? And do people even bother mailing record companies their material anymore? It seems like the internet has superseded that entirely.

For the better? Perhaps...

 

[DevinShidaker]

My band has sold a cumulative 40,000 records since 2009, which is big for a metal band. Nobody has seen a penny from any of those sales. We make a decent amount of money on the road, but it all gets pumped back into gas, management, tour management, merchandise, debt, etc. Any money we do make pretty much goes to pay a cell phone bill, or it goes towards buying new gear we need. In the '90's and before, music was a lucrative business, but with music piracy, the economy, and the over-saturation of bands that are considered "big", there's not enough money to go around to pay everyone. Somebody working minimum wage makes a TON more money than I do. It's sad, but I love playing so I deal with it.

 

[Bobo]

Stand? I would use the word crawl.

Oh I thought the word was sink.

 

[Ntbillie]

There was a report on this once. And I actually don't have the link anymore. But You gotta keep into consideration mann. That nomatter how many albums a Band sells. There are ALWAYS costs We people ignore,which the Band bears. Example Record Sales commission, Record company share,equipment managers,advertising Etc. But alotta Musicians make alotta $$ from their Endorsements. Huge guitar companies say..like Ibanez. Pay their artists in millions just to make their artists stay put. A huge example would be Mick Thomson. He left B.C.RICH for Ibanez. Not that I'm pointing any brand in specific. But a new Band which has a good record company might make on average 40,000$ per record. And Touring is a separate story. But Bands make much more from touring then Albums:Fact. My point is that, You won't make money if You start a Band with the purpose to make money. Just see Adtr's example for say. When they started out nobody knew they existed. And look at where they are now,in just 1 year. A Band has many income openings and many expenses they need to cover. Just go a quick search and You'll find that Tosin Abasi and all the other members of Animals as Leaders are now offering on tour lessons. This way they can share their expertise with people who love their music. And get a decent amount of income for themselves..

 

[DevinShidaker]

There was a report on this once. And I actually don't have the link anymore. But You gotta keep into consideration mann. That nomatter how many albums a Band sells. There are ALWAYS costs We people ignore,which the Band bears. Example Record Sales commission, Record company share,equipment managers,advertising Etc. But alotta Musicians make alotta $$ from their Endorsements. Huge guitar companies say..like Ibanez. Pay their artists in millions just to make their artists stay put. A huge example would be Mick Thomson. He left B.C.RICH for Ibanez. Not that I'm pointing any brand in specific. But a new Band which has a good record company might make on average 40,000$ per record. And Touring is a separate story. But Bands make much more from touring then Albums:Fact. My point is that, You won't make money if You start a Band with the purpose to make money. Just see Adtr's example for say. When they started out nobody knew they existed. And look at where they are now,in just 1 year. A Band has many income openings and many expenses they need to cover. Just go a quick search and You'll find that Tosin Abasi and all the other members of Animals as Leaders are now offering on tour lessons. This way they can share their expertise with people who love their music. And get a decent amount of income for themselves..

You are mistaken about that endorsement statement. The only way you actually make money off of an endorsement is if you have a signature guitar for sale, you make a percentage off of that. Other than that all you get is free gear or a discount. I have an Ibanez endorsement, and they have the right to use my image/name for any marketing purposes in exchange for a certain number of free guitars over the course of my contract. After I get my free stuff, I get a slight discount on things from them. I'm not complaining because I love Ibanez and everybody that I work with, but as far as money is concerned, they don't pay me or any other artist that doesn't have a signature model.

 

[The Reverend]

I think if you wanna be a musician professionally, playing the music the majority of us are talking about, you need to get used to being broke. How many times have you seen really good bands on tour, begging for a place to sleep and shower? That should be a hint as to what their finances are like.

My plan is to go to college, get my degree, than try and play music for as long as I can. No wife or babies for me, at least not until I feel like I've accomplished what I want to in music. After that, I'll go work in a cubicle, designing video games for Bratz.

 

[ultranoob]

sometimes it isn't always the best idea to try and make a living out of your favorite thing to do. Meeting expenses means pressure on your creative force, which can be positive or negative, depending how you look at it. Letting your passion be free of such demands, however, may let you thrive more. Make your day-job your second favorite thing to do, and love making music without the headaches of the industry.

 

[Jexey]

Sometimes you got to bust your ass somewhere else to make it possible to do what you love. Money's a bitch but sadly it's not one we can divorce!

 

[GH0STrider]

It would certainly be wise to have another source of income. Many musicians I know that do it for a career are also guitar teachers. They have the flexability to still be in a band and tour. Not to mention, technology has made teaching guitar anywhere possible so you aren't always losing students/income. At then end of the day you have to explore all avenues but understanding your "career" choice in music should be founded on passion, not the drive for money is crucial.

 

[Explorer]

It should be fairly clear at this point that the average performing musician isn't getting rich. Adding a side job, whether teaching music or working elsewhere, isn't about performing, and there are music teachers who *don't* perform, of course, so the fact that teaching may or may not teach a particular subject is irrelevant to it being different performing.

Hopefully, the OP now has some fairly good perspective, brought to the table by those members of SS.org who are or have been performers. Mountainjam still hasn't posted about his/her particular success so far, so I don't know if that will bring up the average, but even with one success story which goes far beyond the rest, it still won't do much to outweigh everyone else....

 

[MTech]

But alotta Musicians make alotta $$ from their Endorsements. Huge guitar companies say..like Ibanez. Pay their artists in millions just to make their artists stay put. A huge example would be Mick Thomson. He left B.C.RICH for Ibanez. Not that I'm pointing any brand in specific. But a new Band which has a good record company might make on average 40,000$ per record.

This is exaggerated... millions is a huge overstatement. Most bands just get cheaper or free gear and that's it...once you get into sig model territory or you've got a big name then it's a bit different but not remotely as much as you're thinking.
The way most endorsements work is one of the following ways.
1: Percentage Off
2: Free Gear
3: Free Gear + Signing Bonus (Usually happens when you see guys leave one big brand to the next)
4: Free Gear + Sig Model Royalties & Possibly signing bonus (Usually happens when you see guys leave one big brand to the next)
5: Tons of Free Gear and Big Big Money... Tens to Hundreds of thousands is more realistic though there are some that get ridiculous money to be with certain company.

Some companies build their entire image this way as they hand pic certain artists... I know two old associates I had were at a certain well known groups show and supposedly heard the guitarist throwing a tantrum outside. They got to talk to the drummer and asked what the deal was and he explained they had something happen with their gig and were not paid what they usually get so the guitarist was pissed... They heard the guitarist make the remark "I get paid more in one payment from *company that supposedly doesn't pay artists* then we got for the show.

 

[matisq]

My band has sold a cumulative 40,000 records since 2009, which is big for a metal band. Nobody has seen a penny from any of those sales. We make a decent amount of money on the road, but it all gets pumped back into gas, management, tour management, merchandise, debt, etc. Any money we do make pretty much goes to pay a cell phone bill, or it goes towards buying new gear we need. In the '90's and before, music was a lucrative business, but with music piracy, the economy, and the over-saturation of bands that are considered "big", there's not enough money to go around to pay everyone. Somebody working minimum wage makes a TON more money than I do. It's sad, but I love playing so I deal with it.

Men. I know your band (as I believe almost anyone on this forum do), and it's really shitty that even you don't have some good money. I hope at least your gear is sponsored by companies like Peavey, Ibanez etc.
BTW: I'm fallen in love in deathcore since I heard you band