Where there's smoke... why does George Zimmerman keep triggering 911 calls?

[Explorer]

So, there was that incident where George Zimmerman kept telling his wife to come "closer" when he was armed, while she was calling 911 (maybe so he could claim he was "standing his ground).

George Zimmerman's Wife on 911 Tape: 'I Am Really, Really Scared' - ABC News

Then he got arrested after cocking a pointing a shotgun in his girlfriend's direction, breaking a glass table and pushing her out of her own house and barricading himself inside after she told him to move out.

George Zimmerman arrested for domestic violence - Orlando Sentinel

Now, road rage and stalking the dude at his job.

George Zimmerman threatened to kill man in road rage incident, Florida police say | News - Home

Everyone keeps deciding not to press charges, so Zimmerman is clearly innocent, right?

But... wait a second... how many people here have triggered more then one 911 call in the last year? In other words, can this stuff really be brushed off as all just mistakes?

I suspect it's that people think a piece of paper like a restraining order won't stop bullets, and that Zimmerman is going to go after them if such an order is served.

This guy is going to kill someone else.

And Florida is still not a place I'd like to live.

Do you think he's a danger? Or just misunderstood and innocent, just like during the Trayvon Martin shooting?

 

[vilk]

I don't think anyone at any point argued that he was misunderstood or innocent in the Treyvon murder. I don't think there's any wiggle room when it comes to an adult shooting dead an unarmed teenager. The only debate was whether or not the murder was premeditated. If they would have gone for 2nd degree instead of 1st he'd have been charged for sure, and maybe he'd even be in jail. Right?

 

[Randy]

The mixture of not being held accountable for any of his actions (take your pick of any of the things you've listed) and being beatified by the gun lobby has added to the psyche of an already narcissistic person. He thinks he's bulletproof (no pun intended) and he's going to keep doing things that would land most people in jail until it finally happens.

The silver lining, to me, is the fact that I always painted OJ Simpson the same way and it eventually caught up to him.

 

[asher]

If they would have gone for 2nd degree instead of 1st he'd have been charged for sure, and maybe he'd even be in jail. Right?

That's cute.

 

[TRENCHLORD]

His own cowardice (coward-ass) makes him a permanently dangerous fellow.
I think he should be disarmed until he can/if he can show some sort of long-term stability.

 

[Explorer]

It looks like this time it won't be a matter of an assault victim not pressing charges, but the cops instead. That might make it harder for Zimmerman to avoid penalties for his behavior.

AP News : In report, Zimmerman denies throwing bottle at ex-girlfriend

And he had to surrender his guns.

George Zimmerman turns in his guns after assault arrest

The fact that the police documents report that the girlfriend called Zimmerman a psycho will probably not help either.

Report: George Zimmerman a ‘Psycho,’ Ex-Girlfriend Says - The Root

According to the report, the woman was “extremely emotional, crying, mad and upset” and called her ex “that psycho, George Zimmerman,” voicing her regret for having gotten involved with him, the Associated Press reports.

I don't know the legalities, so if anyone has lawyer knowledge, I want to know: Can the court compel those who previously didn't want to file charges to testify? If a zealous prosecutor wanted to go there, to show a history of this kind of behavior, would those previous relevant incidents be admissible?

There was an interesting article on Slate a while ago: Mass Killers Often Start by Stalking, Assaulting, or Killing Women

Granted, Zimmerman already has one public killing. However, did the domestic violence only start after Zimmerman killed Martin?

I'm hopeful the judge will allow all relevant material, and possibly prevent some murderous mayhem in the future.

 

[GoldDragon]

I watched the live streaming of the trial and it was clear that he was assaulted and fired in self defense. It was poor judgement to follow Trayvon, you might argue that he was looking for a confrontation. (OTH, doesn't a neighborhood watch have the right to investigate something in his back yard? There was a history of break ins.) But what if Zimmerman had not got out of his car and instead another person had walked down that lane? Would trayvon have assaulted the next person to walk by, thinking it was the guy in the car?

Trayvon lay in waiting a good five minutes, if he had walked back to his apartment Zimmerman would never have encountered him. In the conversation with the girl on the phone, he indicated that he wanted to attack the cracker who was following him.

Its clear to me that Zimmerman is a loser, his stint in MMA, his desire to carry a gun and do the police's work, but the jury got it right.

Regarding all the other problems he's having, consider what kind of life he is leading now. He is in fear of his life, probably can't find employment because of negative public opinion, or that companies do not want negative association. He had to move to another state. Only thrill seekers and racists are going to want to make his acquaintance, some of them are looking for publicity, some of them are looking to push his buttons. His chances of having normal friendships and relationships are zero to none. He is very likely suffering PTSD from the fallout from the trial and his fear for his life. He has probably declared bankruptcy and is still in serious debt.

So when you consider those factors, its not a surprise to me that he is having problems. I think he's a loser, but he had a right to defend himself when he was assaulted, and the jury came to this conclusion.

 

[ElRay]

I don't think anyone at any point argued that he was misunderstood or innocent in the Treyvon murder. ...

Chicago is a little different than the rest of IL. I heard a lot of Treyvon got what he deserved comments.

Ray

 

[123321123]

If this had been before the trial then this thread would have a point, otherwise it's just a case of "hindsight is 20/20" at best.

 

[Explorer]

So when you consider those factors, its not a surprise to me that he is having problems.

Wait a second.

That's a really strange chain of logic.

Has anyone here, when having a bad day, decided to punch a baby?

I'm hoping the answer for all of us is no. That's because being stressed doesn't lead to any of us taking it out on an infant.

What about an animal? Any of us stomp an animal? Hopefully not.

What about stalking and intimidatinging a motorist at his job, a full day after he pissed you off? Wow, that's really a bit more extreme than the second example, but not as extreme as punching a baby. Still, I don't care how stressed we are, I don't think any of us would cross that line.

What about threatening your spouse or romantic partner? I don't. Hopefully none of us think that's normal.

What about actually pulling out something which can physically harm one's spouse or romantic partner?

What about moving said object towards one's spouse or domestic partner?

GoldDragopn, I think you realize that the bolded items above aren't normal behavior for most US males. However, they are normal behavior for those who often go on to single and mass killings.

Here's the article again.

Domestic violence before mass killings: Ismaaiyl Brinsley, Man Haron Monis, Elliot Rodger, and more.

If you believe those bolded items are normal behavior when you're under stress, you need to talk to someone.

Is that really what you meant?

BTW, Zimmerman was raised in one of the Christian faiths, which again demonstrates how your thesis of inculcation of Christian values works out for society. It's your choice if you choose to think assaults on strangers and loved one should count as positive or negative....

You never answered about majority non-Christian faiths, incidentally. I'm still hoping you'll either defend that assertion in that topic, or admit that the assertion falls apart in the face of the evidence.

 

[ZeroTolerance94]

Nobody here knows him personally.

Nobody knows exactly what happened at any of these incidents, they're just accusations.

NEVER assume ANYTHING.
Everybody is innocent. Until proven BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.

Leave the guy alone.

 

[Explorer]

Actually, in cases of possible domestic violence or assault (on someone close or a stranger), when considering the dangers posed by the assaulter, the standard isn't "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt."

Instead, it's what a reasonable person would conclude, including whether someone might pose a threat to someone else's safety. The courts err on the side of caution, and on the side of the possible target(s).

Ironically, you seem to be making a judgment about how others shouldn't make judgments.

I'm okay with judgments. If a Christian wants to say that Jesus was a good man and we should follow his example, that's a judgment. At that point, after making a judgment, you can't state that others shouldn't judge without becoming a hypocrite, can you?

 

[GoldDragon]

Wait a second.

That's a really strange chain of logic.

Has anyone here, when having a bad day, decided to punch a baby?

NO, thats not what was implied.

It is probably more correct to say that Zimmerman is living in a much more stressful environment with social isolation that few other people experience. Under those kinds of streeses, its more likely that he will be involved in conflict, and because of his circumstances, he will attract, be surrounded by volatile people with bad motives.

 

[GoldDragon]

What about stalking and intimidatinging a motorist at his job, a full day after he pissed you off? Wow, that's really a bit more extreme than the second example, but not as extreme as punching a baby. Still, I don't care how stressed we are, I don't think any of us would cross that line.

First, he's probably living under extreme stress. Insomnia and depression (PTSD) cause people to do strange things.

Second, this was an allegation, was it proven? There are two sides to every story. The other party may be one of those volatile people I was talking about, the kind that is looking for conflict. Zimmerman doesnt have access to a "normal" cross section of society anymore. Normal people are going to steer clear of him.

 

[Konfyouzd]

The mixture of not being held accountable for any of his actions (take your pick of any of the things you've listed) and being beatified by the gun lobby has added to the psyche of an already narcissistic person. He thinks he's bulletproof (no pun intended) and he's going to keep doing things that would land most people in jail until it finally happens.

The silver lining, to me, is the fact that I always painted OJ Simpson the same way and it eventually caught up to him.

"If I did it..."

Ohh... And that brilliant armed robbery...

 

[Explorer]

First, he's probably living under extreme stress. Insomnia and depression (PTSD) cause people to do strange things.

Second, this was an allegation, was it proven? There are two sides to every story. The other party may be one of those volatile people I was talking about, the kind that is looking for conflict. Zimmerman doesnt have access to a "normal" cross section of society anymore. Normal people are going to steer clear of him.

I'm not sure I can say that all four other parties (Martin, ex-wife, ex-girlfriend, passing motorist whom Zimmerman stalked) weren'tt the kind of people you were talking about, the kind that is looking for conflict.

However, out of six known incidents involving Zimmerman, at least one has recordings of Zimmerman ignoring police dispatch instructions to not look for conflict (911 call before Zimmerman killed Martin), and another 911 call has Zimmerman egging on his ex-wife, apparently to provoke a situation where Zimmerman could again claim a "stand your ground" defense.

And those two calls are not "alleged" calls. They are public record.

I'm also not sure if you're claiming that the motorist who Zimmerman stalked was the one looking for confrontation. That would mean the motorist forced Zimmerman to drive to the motorist's workplace. That sounds a little far-fetched.

The one thing all those incidents have in common, including Zimmerman ignoring police staff orders to not look for conflict with Martin, Zimmerman egging on the ex-wife, Zimmerman stalking the motorist, are George Zimmerman.

Do you have an alternate take which reasonably explains the 911 calls and Zimmerman being outside a stranger's workplace?

----

Short version: Please argue against Zimmerman being the one who has consistently sought conflict, using the facts of Zimmerman's behavior and the documentation of the two 911 calls. Otherwise, it sounds like you're ignoring the facts, and attempting to place blame for documented incidents of seeking conflict onto the victims of Zimmerman's aggression.

 

[GoldDragon]

I dont think police commanded him not to follow, I don't remember the wording but it was something like "we don't need you to do that." This is one of the things that has morphed over time from mistelling.

I watched the live stream of the trial, but don't have as much knowledge of other events.

 

[Explorer]

Wait... so now you're saying that Zimmerman was only advised that he should stay put, and that Zimmerman ignored that because it wasn't an order.

But you're admitting that Zimmerman went looking for conflict.

It sounds like you're supporting the idea the Zimmerman was the one seeking conflict. Do I have that right?

If Zimmerman *wasn't* the one seeking conflict, why did he ignore the police "suggestion" that he didn't need to pursue the one who "always gets away with it"?

Let me ask a direct question here, in light of the three different situations leading to 911 calls (Martin, ex-wife, random motorist stalked by Zimmerman):

Do you agree that there is plenty of evidence that Zimmerman seeks conflict?

Or, are you stating that Zimmerman is just the target of an aggressive conspiracy from known parties and total strangers?

 

[GoldDragon]

Wait... so now you're saying that Zimmerman was only advised that he should stay put, and that Zimmerman ignored that because it wasn't an order.

But you're admitting that Zimmerman went looking for conflict.

It sounds like you're supporting the idea the Zimmerman was the one seeking conflict. Do I have that right?

If Zimmerman *wasn't* the one seeking conflict, why did he ignore the police "suggestion" that he didn't need to pursue the one who "always gets away with it"?

In his role as neighborhood watch, he wanted to stop the rash of break ins, so he took the inititive to investigate. It wasnt that he was looking to start a fight or conflict, but put a stop to the break ins. I admit he would not have been so brave if he did not legally have a fire arm.

Trayvon waited in hiding for five minutes and jumped him when he entered the alley. There was evidence from Trayvon's conversation with the girl that he wanted a confrontation.

So there was one suspicion neihborhood watch volunteer in legal posession of a gun investigating a suspicious person, and a young man who did not like being watched who waited for then attacked Zimmerman.

If a man resorts to attacking a neighborhood watch volunteer because he does not like being "watched", then that is the problem. Thats what Zimmerman was there to do. To watch for suspicious persons.

 

[Explorer]

In his role as a member of his local neighborhood watch, he didn't follow the normal mission of a neighborhood watch member: being the eyes and ears for the police.

you do again make the case that Zimmerman deliberately ignored being advised to let officers handle it. Thank you for pointing out that Zimmerman actively made a choice to seek conflict.

It sounds like you're supporting the idea the Zimmerman was the one seeking conflict. Do I have that right?

If Zimmerman *wasn't* the one seeking conflict, why did he ignore the police "suggestion" that he didn't need to pursue the one who "always gets away with it"?

It looks like you're ignoring a direct question here again, and I'd hate to make a conclusion without you getting a chance to argue otherwise. Let me ask again, in light of the three different situations leading to 911 calls (Martin, where you definitely made the case that Zimmerman sought conflict, the ex-wife, and the random motorist stalked by Zimmerman):

Do you agree that there is plenty of evidence that Zimmerman seeks conflict?

Or, are you stating that Zimmerman is just the target of an aggressive conspiracy from known parties and total strangers?