Why are you mad right now?

[Thrashman]

Well Kiesel lost me and a few friends as customers after that move. Sad to se admins comply as well, but hey - money talks I suppose.

Sigh.

 

[marcwormjim]

Wow. I wish I could remove every pro-Kiesel sentiment from my post history.

 

[Emperor Guillotine]

Make sure to spread the word of this one guys since we have proof this time.

Page 1

Page 2

And if you need my screenshot, here it is.

 

[marcwormjim]

I say we get a crowdfund going For yellowv, to help publicize this. I'll put in a few dollars, whether it goes toward a chargeback dispute, ss.org hosting fees to encourage the loss of Kiesel's payola, or just to get the guy a guitar from a less villainous company. At the least, maybe it would encourage the international buyers I've seen screwed over to come out of the woodwork, as well.

 

[Steinmetzify]

Wow. Ok then.

Good on Alex for making sure of the end result with the OP; all the interactions I've had with him have been positive. I get that they advertise here and it's probably a chunk of revenue that helps keep this site going, but damn.

All these companies want to snuff this type of crap out and tell 'their side of the story'...guess what, the product you deliver IS your side of the story.

Glad I saw it, glad I read this too.

 

[BlackMastodon]

Wow, glad I read through both of those pages. What's more shocking to me was Oracles' friend's experience with his DC800. :wow:

I think it's some serious bullsh*t that the thread was swept under the rug, not even locked. Those pages are definitely worth sharing and I think people should share those as much as possible. Being that dismissive of your customers after spending that much money is unacceptable of any company.

 

[kevdes93]

Had a good chunk of money put away for a dc7x, looks like I'll just get another RGA I was wondering if anyone else noticed the threads mysterious disappearance. Not giving them a penny since seeing all this.

 

[bhakan]

I think the dumbest part about this is from what I know the actual problem with Kiesel was relatively forgivable. They may have taken too long to fix an issue with a customer but it seems like they eventually did it. I'm totally willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that they were busy or something and took too long. However having the thread closed is dishonest and shady and makes this whole situation into a big deal that has totally turned me off from Kiesel.

 

[NicePants]

Honestly quite surprised Kiesel would do something like that. If another company like Chapman Guitars can screw up and publicly announce and fix it without sweeping it under the rug like some reptilian conspiracy, and NOT lose business because of it, why go through with this? This just leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

 

[Stuck_in_a_dream]

I think the dumbest part about this is from what I know the actual problem with Kiesel was relatively forgivable. They may have taken too long to fix an issue with a customer but it seems like they eventually did it. I'm totally willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that they were busy or something and took too long. However having the thread closed is dishonest and shady and makes this whole situation into a big deal that has totally turned me off from Kiesel.

Exactly!

It seems the guitar was initially constructed while they were preparing for NAMM, as OP said it was originally due on 12/23, but he received it 1/23. Still, no excuse for the horrid finish problems, crooked side dots and neck pickup, plus refinish the guitar (against customer wishes while at it ) in 6 more weeks! Really unbelievable! And as if that wasn't horrifying enough, they do this and ask the thread to be removed, wow.

 

[Ordacleaphobia]

Honestly quite surprised Kiesel would do something like that. If another company like Chapman Guitars can screw up and publicly announce and fix it without sweeping it under the rug like some reptilian conspiracy, and NOT lose business because of it, why go through with this? This just leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

This.
This mentality is something I will never understand. Carvin / Kiesel was very firmly on the (very!) short list of builders I have a ton of respect for, due to consistent quality and reliable customer service. They're an established company, and for the most part, have put out very solid guitars.

Why do something like this?

If you see that a customer is angry about the way you handled a situation, yeah, I'd be a bit upset that that was the way things went down, but you handle it. It goes without saying that turning someone's opinion of your business 180 degrees into a positive light again will speak volumes more for the quality and integrity of your business than if that customer had never spoken at all. EVEN MORE so than if it gets discovered that you swept it under the rug...that just leaves a nasty taste in everyone's mouths...

Just an edit here, something I remembered to tack on to this point was Skervesen. What really turned me on to Skervesen was when someone here bought a guitar from another member, I think it wasn't even second hand, he'd probably been the third or fourth owner, and when it arrived at his doorstep it had serious issues. Fret problems, neck issues, etc, and the Skervesen guys actually took it back, fixed everything, and sent it back to him, free of charge as a gesture to show that they stand by their work. Whenever I see that name now I always think of this gesture.

EVEN IF things DIDN'T get resolved, and the Kiesel boys stuck to their guns with the whole "not our problem" bit, they would have STILL been better off leaving the thread open. I posted in that thread, personally I would have chalked it up to over-ambition and the scale of the business ramping up a little too quickly. Now after this, all I can think is that they're more concerned with the public opinion of their work and less with the actual quality of their work, and will do whatever they can to maintain that, ethical or not...

I guess I'm not so much mad as I am frustrated and disappointed. Jeff and the team seemed like real stand up guys, it's a shame to hear about this. And shame on the SSO mod squad as well, this isn't like you guys. If you would have asked me what I thought you guys would do in a situation like this I totally would have expected you guys to let the thread stay and tell Carvin that being a sponsor doesn't mean you get to censor people.

 

[marcwormjim]

I'm hoping this shameful incident can be a start to the community speaking out whenever Kiesel just bevels over people, like this.

 

[Emperor Guillotine]

Honestly quite surprised Kiesel would do something like that. If another company like Chapman Guitars can screw up and publicly announce and fix it without sweeping it under the rug like some reptilian conspiracy, and NOT lose business because of it, why go through with this? This just leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

You know why. We all do. It's the shady person who is running Kiesel's online image. Seriously guys, share this around to other forums and even social media like Facebook. Kiesel's history of this kind of crap can't be overlooked anymore.

I'm hoping this shameful incident can be a start to the community speaking out whenever Kiesel just bevels over people, like this.

That pun.

 

[bostjan]

Page 3 (partial)

 

[flint757]

Yeah, Kiesel has shot himself in the foot big time. Had he let the thread stay open we would all see that the problem was resolved and there is nothing more to it. The whole incident would have likely been forgotten in a week or two. Having any evidence of poor craftsmanship and customer service removed though was like turning a little scratch into a full on flesh wound. Cover ups never end well.

 

[Emperor Guillotine]

Yeah, Kiesel has shot himself in the foot big time. Had he let the thread stay open we would all see that the problem was resolved and there is nothing more to it. The whole incident would have likely been forgotten in a week or two. Having any evidence of poor craftsmanship and customer service removed though was like turning a little scratch into a full on flesh wound. Cover ups never end well.

You are correct, Flint757, which is why we need to circulate/spread this and get the word out.

 

[High Plains Drifter]

Took some time to step back from this mess but I've made my decision now. Love my K/C's but maybe I got lucky. They're both [seemingly] top-notch.

With that said, that's the last time that I'll give props unless asked about my specific instruments. I never was all that pleased with other aspects of the company... although I won't nit-pick in this thread all the things that I wasn't happy with. Overall I'm just breathing a sigh of relief that my two guitars seem to be fine. Of course time will tell if they hold up.

As for the future... was going back and forth between PRS and K/C for my next six-string. Will not even consider K/C at this point.

 

[asher]

COBRA/FBA health care coverage expired on 1/31.

I'm NOW getting information about this, stuff that wasn't even postmarked until 3/9.

 

[MikeNeal]

cant believe this kiesel crap. i was curious where the post went, and assumed it was deleted

i can say honestly, i wont buy one.

 

[downburst82]

I'm of the mind if Carvin/keisel doesn't want fair discussion on the site fine...throw them in the filter and your brand can piss off...but that won't happen because they are an advertiser...they pay the site owner $$ and if people haven't noticed thats what the main focus of this site has become more and more. The recent changes happening will be detrimental to the user experience...but they will increase site traffic (more ad $$ from people like Carvin) and decrease effort needed to operate the forum (on the owners end...I imagine it will make things harder for the mods..)

Still my favorite forum because the user base and mods are great! but stuff like this is starting to sour things a bit for me.