And also to be 100% clear again the mod staff had NOTHING to do with this, Alex removed the thread. His forum, his decision.
Why are you mad right now?
- Thread starter Faine
- Start date
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Mangle
Breaker
Was trying to post in the thread and literally got bounced out of it as I was hitting the button. Then got a "do not have permission to post in this thread" message as it disappeared. Everyone has bad days, no one is above it. For Carvin to have the thread taken down shows an almost paranoid zeal for their business' reputation/perception. Can't any of these people ever not turn out to be borderline megalomaniacal fruit loops?
edit: yeah, there were only maybe 1 or 2 more posts after what's showing as the end of page 3.
edit: yeah, there were only maybe 1 or 2 more posts after what's showing as the end of page 3.
Carvin/Kiesel is handling their pr like the swiss guitar maker we all know 
deleting stuff on the left and right. Glad the guy got a refund but it should've happened way before he had to go public with it. Adds one more reason to the list why Ill never spend money on one
deleting stuff on the left and right. Glad the guy got a refund but it should've happened way before he had to go public with it. Adds one more reason to the list why Ill never spend money on one
BIG ND SWEATY
Edgy
I wasn't even mad about anything today but seeing that the Kiesel thread was deleted at their request got me pretty annoyed. What an absurd thing to have done, you're a business for fucks sake, you need to be able to admit when you screw up and fix it. Good to know Alex is willing to take money from a company like that.
Really hoping they don't decide to be an asshole about this whole thing and yellowv can get his money back.
Really hoping they don't decide to be an asshole about this whole thing and yellowv can get his money back.
TedEH
Cromulent
Everyone right now said:
Maybe I should be off to the unpopular opinions thread for this one, but I think we may be blowing the situation a bit out of proportion. It's only one thread that got removed, and I think the existence of this thread is enough punishment for them. Companies are made of people, and people make mistakes. I don't think this one PR problem is enough for me to say that everything Kiesel does going forward is crap. This whole "Kiesel is evil! We gatta spread the word!" thing is an overreaction IMO.
Wow, that's outright ....ing ridiculous. The pettiness of it alone is laughable.
Hope the ad revenue was worth it. Should we just paypal the dude some cash whenever we need to make a negative post about Carvin? Just to make up for the potential loss of magical ad money, which is obviously more important than maintaining a decent forum environment.
Hope the ad revenue was worth it. Should we just paypal the dude some cash whenever we need to make a negative post about Carvin? Just to make up for the potential loss of magical ad money, which is obviously more important than maintaining a decent forum environment.
Kobalt
Well-Known Member
What's the saying, again...Maybe I should be off to the unpopular opinions thread for this one, but I think we may be blowing the situation a bit out of proportion. It's only one thread that got removed, and I think the existence of this thread is enough punishment for them. Companies are made of people, and people make mistakes. I don't think this one PR problem is enough for me to say that everything Kiesel does going forward is crap. This whole "Kiesel is evil! We gatta spread the word!" thing is an overreaction IMO.
It takes time and effort to build trust and reputation, but very little to lose it?
Something like that...
Emperor Guillotine
The Almighty Ruler
This isn't the first time that Kiesel has done this. This removal of posts exposing flaws or poor customer service has been done before on here as well as on other forums. It has just received more attention this time because we watched it happen and we have proof. Remember that Kiesel's social media guy who does all this is a founder at Wired Guitarist who runs things there and he deletes every potentially negative word about Kiesel on the pages. The posts or comments that are incidentally left up turn into a sh*t-talking fest as the moronic sheep in that group resort to ganging up against whomever made the post or comment.Maybe I should be off to the unpopular opinions thread for this one, but I think we may be blowing the situation a bit out of proportion. It's only one thread that got removed, and I think the existence of this thread is enough punishment for them. Companies are made of people, and people make mistakes. I don't think this one PR problem is enough for me to say that everything Kiesel does going forward is crap. This whole "Kiesel is evil! We gatta spread the word!" thing is an overreaction IMO.
MrBouleDeBowling
Well-Known Member
I am completely broke for the next 2 weeks.
Ordacleaphobia
Shameless Contrarian
Maybe I should be off to the unpopular opinions thread for this one, but I think we may be blowing the situation a bit out of proportion. It's only one thread that got removed, and I think the existence of this thread is enough punishment for them. Companies are made of people, and people make mistakes. I don't think this one PR problem is enough for me to say that everything Kiesel does going forward is crap. This whole "Kiesel is evil! We gatta spread the word!" thing is an overreaction IMO.
I'm 50/50 on this. Personally, the flaws in the guy's post wouldn't have even bothered me that much, I wouldn't have read into it too far, and once Kiesel reminded me I got an option 50 then that would have been that.
The part that bothers me is that it's a freedom of speech issue, not 'punishing' Carvin / Kiesel.
And AGAIN, normally, this wouldn't be much of a problem, because since the whole thing got resolved (I think it did anyway, iirc Alex was making sure things got seen through), there technically isn't really a "need" for the thread anymore. Who knows, they may have told Alex it was a condition to get the guy his refund and Alex decided that one thread isn't worth costing one of his users a couple thousand bucks. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
But the social climate lately has really got me and a lot of other people worried with all of the pro-censorship bs that's been going around. Everyone everywhere is deciding what is and is not okay for people to say and it's really been getting out of hand lately. As a result, it's become a touchy subject for a lot of people, and anything that can even REMOTELY be deemed as some kind of censorship is enough to get people feeling like they need to take action cause it's proven to be a very slippery slope...even in places like this which have been very, very open places of discussion, the slightest hint at heading that direction is enough to worry people and I think that's what we're seeing.
It is a SUPER frustrating time we live in. The entitlement is everywhere.
@Technomancer, thanks for the post, for some reason it didn't click to me that it was Alex's call. Sorry to point at you guys.
Señor Voorhees
Well-Known Member
Maybe I should be off to the unpopular opinions thread for this one, but I think we may be blowing the situation a bit out of proportion. It's only one thread that got removed, and I think the existence of this thread is enough punishment for them. Companies are made of people, and people make mistakes. I don't think this one PR problem is enough for me to say that everything Kiesel does going forward is crap. This whole "Kiesel is evil! We gatta spread the word!" thing is an overreaction IMO.
I'm kinda with you. I think it's being blown well out of proportion, but it is still a valid concern. I think it's asinine that they sent the guy a guitar with bubbling paint (among other things) and told him that they weren't going to do anything about it until he publicly called it out. Option 50 or not, that was a build flaw and deserved more swift action. Still, people are beginning to piss and .... all over guitars and stuff that aren't flawed just because they're mad about these few mistakes that were made recently. It's a little overboard.
A-Branger
Well-Known Member
we got cookies..... oh wait no, not we dont A-Branger
Well-Known Member
I'm 50/50 on this. Personally, the flaws in the guy's post wouldn't have even bothered me that much, I wouldn't have read into it too far, and once Kiesel reminded me I got an option 50 then that would have been that.
The part that bothers me is that it's a freedom of speech issue, not 'punishing' Carvin / Kiesel.
And AGAIN, normally, this wouldn't be much of a problem, because since the whole thing got resolved (I think it did anyway, iirc Alex was making sure things got seen through), there technically isn't really a "need" for the thread anymore. Who knows, they may have told Alex it was a condition to get the guy his refund and Alex decided that one thread isn't worth costing one of his users a couple thousand bucks. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
But the social climate lately has really got me and a lot of other people worried with all of the pro-censorship bs that's been going around. Everyone everywhere is deciding what is and is not okay for people to say and it's really been getting out of hand lately. As a result, it's become a touchy subject for a lot of people, and anything that can even REMOTELY be deemed as some kind of censorship is enough to get people feeling like they need to take action cause it's proven to be a very slippery slope...even in places like this which have been very, very open places of discussion, the slightest hint at heading that direction is enough to worry people and I think that's what we're seeing.
It is a SUPER frustrating time we live in. The entitlement is everywhere.
@Technomancer, thanks for the post, for some reason it didn't click to me that it was Alex's call. Sorry to point at you guys.
speaking of censorship. Im not sure what happened, but in one of the recent treads of NGD PRS hollocomb, someone made a coment about how "bad" or uggly or whatever, the top of the guitar was, saying that almost a third of the guitar didtn really had any figuring. (something among these lines). I remember because I "like" the comment, I personally think that to pay that much money for a hollocomb sig (which is more $$ than a CU24) it doesnt justify having a top that its worse looking than the SE lines. Either way I came back a couple of days latter to check the tread and the comment was deleted
only the happy ngd comments have been left.I know you cant delete your own comment (unless he asked to be deleted himself), or maybe the OP asked for it?. Im not sure what happened. I know its a can of worms and already beaten topic the "bad quilt tops PRS" thing, and I know they might have been trying to minimize the tread going off track. But still, its someones opinion, if he doesnt like it and wants to say something about it, why he cant?
Emperor Guillotine
The Almighty Ruler
This is not an issue circulating around censorship enacted by the mods or site owner though. (The censorship should be addressed at some point though.) This is Kiesel whining to Alex or throwing money at Alex to delete a thread because Kiesel is trying to save face. Before the thread was deleted, the Kiesel/Carvin ads that you see on the home page of this site were not present and had not been present for awhile. After the thread was deleted, the ads were coincidentally back again on the home page. So Kiesel had contacted Alex, and Kiesel had thrown money at Alex. (They can pass it off under the guise of "sponsorship" or whatever, but this was money to keep things quiet.)
Again, read my comment right above yours. This has been done over and over to try to make Kiesel look like this glittering gold company that receives nothing but positive feedback. Lucas Mann of Rings of Saturn did the same thing when the band first came out: he would sit for hours upon hours on end and delete every single negative comment on the band's Facebook or YouTube so that it looked like there was nothing but positive support for the band.
Sweeping things under the rug is just adding on to the dishonest, shady business practice. That is what is grinding people's gears.
Ordacleaphobia
Shameless Contrarian
100% agree, I just meant on a bit more of a broad spectrum, drawing a parallel to what happened here. I've been really paying a lot of attention to this topic over the past couple of years and it really drives me up a wall. Still though, hush money or not, it was deleted because it expressed an unfavorable opinion, and that's censorship in some way.
But yeah, SSO isn't really a censoring place, like I said, this site's got a very long and strong history of bringing the truth out. Main thing that's always drawn me here. Plus all you guys
kevdes93
Sassy
Now im mad because this guy's been keeping me on the line with a PayPal payment for like 2 days now and it's delaying my imminent purchase of another RGA 
it takes like 5 minutes man
it takes like 5 minutes man
Anyone ever try to work a deal with someone and they're being a tool? And now I don't want to buy his guitar just out of principal.
Well after all that crap with Kiesel I finally got the money back in my account today and they actually gave me a refund less the $21 shipping charge. So I essentially paid Kiesel $21 to inconvenience me for four and a half months. Great company.
asher
So Did We
Have done so/not sold to.
Now im mad because this guy's been keeping me on the line with a PayPal payment for like 2 days now and it's delaying my imminent purchase of another RGA
Are these related?
My biggest issue with this whole Kiesel/Carvin drama is that it was swept under the rug to try to hide it. If they left the thread opened and shown that at the end there was a refund issued (albeit $21 short for some really stupid and immature reason
), then it probably would've looked better for K/C. Now they just look even shadier.
