WesleyG
Well-Known Member
This was eye opening, thank you.
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What's sickening is that you can make my anual salary in three builds.
Correction, their business can recoup that amount and use it to pay for materials and offset previous purchases.
They don't just get $15,000 to play with. Heck, back when I was a tech I had thousands of dollars in equiptment, and that's not even counting the large stuff like Drill Press, Bandsaw, Lathe, etc. Then there's rent, electricity, taxes, etc.
That's like saying Ford gets $20,000 every time they sell a Focus.
Sure, being a builder has it's perks, if that's the job of your dreams. From there it's like any other form of skilled labor.
Ya, but dude it's a niche market. Forgive me if I don't see the point in complaining that people want cheaper prices for more. Personally I don't think a guitar should cost more that 500 when produced by a major manufacturer. I can understand business expenses but making custom guitars won't ever be a skill that you can get rich off of. maybe pianos or some classical instrument will fetch a good living.
Ya, but dude it's a niche market.
Forgive me if I don't see the point in complaining that people want cheaper prices for more.
Personally I don't think a guitar should cost more that 500 when produced by a major manufacturer.
I can understand business expenses but making custom guitars won't ever be a skill that you can get rich off of.
maybe pianos or some classical instrument will fetch a good living.
To some degree yes, but overall the custom guitar market is one of the few parts of the industry that's thriving, even in hard economic times. It's nothing new, and there are a lot of shops that have been around for decades.
There is a difference between wanting things to be cheaper. Hell, I wish I could buy more quality guitars for less money. Doesn't everybody?Compared to complaining about it without really understanding what goes into making a guitar, whether it be a $200 Chinese made Strat copy, or a $5000 USA made, custom Alembic.
That's a perfectly fine opinion to have. Tons of folks don't see the need to spend more than a few hundred bucks on a guitar, and that's 100% fine.
Though, could you please explain why you think that guitars can be produced consistently, and with a high degree of quality for so little?
False.
Plenty of builders have made comfortable livings for themselves though instrument making. It's not the rule, by far, but it's certainly not impossible. They might not own multiple Ferrari's or summer houses in Venice, but they can make a nice living and have quite the legacy.
Actually, those have both been waning in recent years, and for the last few decades in the case of Piano techs.
Guys with five figures to drop on Violins, Cellos, and Basses are going for vintage stuff, not new. In fact the biggest companies in classical instruments are making cheap stuff for beginners and schools, not highly prized one-offs.
As for Pianos, it's the same case as classical instruments. Not to mention that digital pianos are getting good to the point of replacing most intermediate pianos.
You make a damn good argument but when I read this thread I saw it as a "sit down, shut up and accept the rules I make for lutherie". It's like a huge FU to all of us with horrible jobs and rubbing our noses in the fact that we can't afford a custom. I'd kill to be in you guys shoes.
Firstly, why would you need a custom? If music is a serious career and you need something production guitars literally cannot offer, then the cost of a custom guitar should be seen as a business expense. Worth saving up for and possibly eating ramen for a year so you can better your business(band). If you just want a custom because they're sought after and popular, it might be worth reassessing your needs if you can't afford it. Maybe you decide you need a custom, then you can do what tons of people here do and don't spend ANY money on non-necessities and live like a monk until you can afford it.
Secondly, why should a luthier only charge for cost of materials? Would you work a job where you do 75 hours of work for free, with the money you bring in only going towards equipment for the next job? I mean, landscapers and contractors will charge more than the cost of mulch or cement, are you saying they shouldn't?
I've seen Darren respond to your exact sentiment before, and (to me) it boils down to: this explanation is to show people what is involved in a custom (from Darren). Other Luthiers may charge less, and you end up with situations like Roter, where the luthier charges basement bottom prices and the customers get absolute shit. So if you want that, go for it! There's no reason to bash a luthier for wanting his business to, you know, actually make money, and with the amount of builders now you aren't "locked" into spending $4000. Just know that a builder willing to charge $500 for a full custom probably doesn't respect the craft (or has terrible business sense).
Just my, 'cos I'm surprised someone took this as an insult to their income.
Side note: I make a pittance, bordering on unlivable if I don't plan what I spend. But I'm willing to forego entertainment, fancy foods, drinking, drugs, and more so I can afford the guitars I want.
You've misunderstood me. I said 500 for a major manufacturers product. Im just saying that there are many jobs that suck out there and pay next to nothing. I don't see why he is complaining about the market when he has the sweetest job in the world that pays decently!
On your side note, I don't have the luxury of any of those things you mentioned + the guitars.
I don't mean to give you guys my life story. I'm only using myself as an example. There just has to be a counter argument. I don't mean to offend anyone's lutherie career but you guys have to admit the job is sweet. Ya there are instances when you worry about the market prices and your business. Just remember nothing is ever going to be easy. With that said I think lutherie is much easier tactical combat casualty care.just sayin......
You make a damn good argument but when I read this thread I saw it as a "sit down, shut up and accept the rules I make for lutherie". It's like a huge FU to all of us with horrible jobs and rubbing our noses in the fact that we can't afford a custom. I'd kill to be in you guys shoes.
Guys with five figures to drop on Violins, Cellos, and Basses are going for vintage stuff, not new. In fact the biggest companies in classical instruments are making cheap stuff for beginners and schools, not highly prized one-offs.
As for Pianos, it's the same case as classical instruments. Not to mention that digital pianos are getting good to the point of replacing most intermediate pianos.
You've misunderstood me. I said 500 for a major manufacturers product. Im just saying that there are many jobs that suck out there and pay next to nothing. I don't see why he is complaining about the market when he has the sweetest job in the world that pays decently!
On your side note, I don't have the luxury of any of those things you mentioned + the guitars.
I don't mean to give you guys my life story. I'm only using myself as an example. There just has to be a counter argument. I don't mean to offend anyone's lutherie career but you guys have to admit the job is sweet. Ya there are instances when you worry about the market prices and your business. Just remember nothing is ever going to be easy. With that said I think lutherie is much easier tactical combat casualty care.just sayin......
You can hardly fault other that can afford the custom guitars they buy though, that's just ridiculous. Nobody is rubbing your nose in it, that's a terrible mindset to have.
People that make money worked really hard to get where they are, nobody makes lots of money by chance (discounting lottery winners and the kardashians) and you're telling them now they have it easy?
Any job is a job, lutherie may look "sweet" to you but it;s hard fucking work and takes years of dedication.
The grass is always greener on the other side
People that make money worked really hard to get where they are, nobody makes lots of money by chance (discounting lottery winners and the kardashians) and you're telling them now they have it easy?
You have three options
1) reenlist, make some rank, and get paid more. I did ok on E6 pay -.-
or
2) get out, go to school, get a good job and get paid more.
or
3) shut the fuck up and quite whining about what you can and can't afford. You're in the military, your job is NOT that difficult.