Why has Karnivool not reached fame?

[Cadavuh]

This puzzles me . They are catchy, have great compositions, and are easily accessible. Their sound is really that of a band who would be played non-stop on US rock radio stations, only better. For those of you who are unaware of the Karnivool musical prowess, here are some of my favorites.

 

[Stealthdjentstic]

Songs too long. Not enough chorus. Too heavy.


BUT ITS OK KARNIVOOL I LOVE YOU!

 

[AySay]

Because people are stupid.

Karnivool is the best band ever...with possibly the worst name...

 

[KoenDercksen]

Songs too long. Not enough chorus. Too heavy.


BUT ITS OK KARNIVOOL I LOVE YOU!

This man's got it

 

[CrushingAnvil]

First video posted bored the fuck out of me within 7 seconds. Last video posted just sounded lame.

Not everyone is going to like some band with a silly name.

 

[Variant]

I've said this exact same thing. Karnivool is pretty amazing, TBH, as they seem to do a number of elements well without overdoing any individual one (bring progressive, having great songwriting, being well produced, being memorable, even fucking great videos). It's a great balance really that should be a winning formula. 'All I Know' should have hit the charts pretty hard if not more:



But it didn't. I think it's a heavy dose of THIS. As much as there's the the internet and the buckling of the majors under financial strains, the majors (and radio, and TV, and other media outlets) still have to be bought off to get anything to push upwards. If anything, it's worse than it was ten years ago. Below the radar, there's so many more opportunities than there used to be, but the gap between there and the "big time" is bigger than ever, IMHO.

 

[Scar Symmetry]

Because it's hard for ANY to make it right now.

 

[Bloody_Inferno]

Because Australian bands take forever to get big. Seriously. Even Jet said it (and while I detest Jet, I have to agree to this), "the Australian music scene, can treat you well but once you're in a level of success, the scene can turn against you. They want you to slug it out for 20 years or so to get big." I mean come on... Karnivool formed in 1997!

As sad as I hate to admit it, there are only 2 ways for an Australian band to gain world wide success. One: you have to be a damn retro rock band. Just ask Jet, Wolfmother and Airbourne. Two: spend a ridiculous amount of money and get out of the country, promote/tour etc. Parkway Drive did it, and everybody in Australia freaked out when they found out that they were from Byron Bay. Psychroptic did it too, and look where they are.

Though the level of success can differ depending on one's definition of it. As stated, Psycroptic are huge and kicking all sorts of goals. However a lot of the venues are just small pubs that can fit about 150 punters max. And I'm sure those guys are surviving off 2 minute noodles.

Though unlike Psycroptic, Karnivool have a bigger potential of success. Hell, a lot of us in the scene knew it. A former bandmate of mine met Ian at a "drug house" all the bands gathered after a show and they were promoting Fade at the time, while getting horrendously munted. We heard it and we all knew that their success is imminent. Once Themata came out, damn they were on the way to becoming the best band in Australia. Eventually, both Sound Awake and Ian Kenny's other band Birds of Tokyo were being highly praised by the country. It took ages, and even 2 bands (and I'm pretty sure Ian still has a full time job), but they managed to get a certain level of success that most of the Aussie bands can only dream of.

However, the Australian music scene, while rich in diverse bands, just don't have enough punters to fill big venues, or even some pubs. That's another reason why it's taken them forever. They gigged relentlessly to build their fanbase, and toured with the bands of the same ilk (and there's a heap of them here in Australia) just to sustain that momentum. Unfortunately, it's very hard to get a mainstream audience to pay for a ticket to see a local home bred band in a nearby pub/club when they would rather spend a substantial amount of money for an international act that can pack a stadium.

I also agree with Ryan/Variant. A hit song is all they need. Though I do believe Shutterspeed is a hit song, then again, Birds of Tokyo had hit songs too. And they won an Aria award for it. And the cost for recording... the fact that making an album, and promoting and touring the hell out of it costs far too much money than most bands could ever afford. Getting all that back and breaking even is now impossible with everyone torrent downloading their stuff. It would be nice knowing that I would have made some decent cash over the past 2 4ARM albums, but the reality is, I'm not. While different from Karnivool... still...

Are we expecting Metallica level success? It would be awesome just thinking about it. Watching Karnivool slug it out for well over a decade, they deserve their due. But there are too many factors that are preventing that.

 

[Demiurge]

Because it's hard for ANY to make it right now.

True, and I think that the bigger record companies are no longer engaged in the practice of signing & promoting any and every band they can find that sounds similar to established, successful acts. They can't be bothered to invest in anything unless they know that they'll make money back hand over fist.

 

[Harry]

Pretty much what Dave (Scar Symmetry) said.
As it is, most bands playing ultra accessible, super safe pop punk don't make it, so the chances of a band playing stuff that is going to immediately have less appeal (less 'safe' sounding, sometimes longer more challenging compositions etc) making it are even more slim.
Sound Awake is just about 70 minutes long. The fact is, most people don't have the patience and attention span to listen to an album that long.
Music is a background thing for a lot of people.
Those of us who take the time to actually sit down and do nothing but listen to an album from start to finish, which I'm sure is many of you guys here and something I've been known to do, are in a big minority.

Take into account Karnivool has a poor formation date to album release ratio too.
Only two full length releases in 14 years isn't going to help the situation.
They REALLY need more full length albums under their belt. That's easier said than, but if they can have a 3 year gap between albums instead of a 4 year gap like from their first album to their most recent, that would help.

 

[Bloody_Inferno]

Pretty much what Dave (Scar Symmetry) said.
As it is, most bands playing ultra accessible, super safe pop punk don't make it, so the chances of a band playing stuff that is going to immediately have less appeal (less 'safe' sounding, sometimes longer more challenging compositions etc) making it are even more slim.
Sound Awake is just about 70 minutes long. The fact is, most people don't have the patience and attention span to listen to an album that long.
Music is a background thing for a lot of people.
Those of us who take the time to actually sit down and do nothing but listen to an album from start to finish, which I'm sure is many of you guys here and something I've been known to do, are in a big minority.

Take into account Karnivool has a poor formation date to album release ratio too.
Only two full length releases in 14 years isn't going to help the situation.
They REALLY need more full length albums under their belt. That's easier said than, but if they can have a 3 year gap between albums instead of a 4 year gap like from their first album to their most recent, that would help.

There are many factors that add to this:

Bands that play accessible pop songs are a dime a dozen. The competition is extremely fierce between them. It's gonna take an ridiculously awesome hit song that can bring out the diamonds from the rough of these bands. Kisschasy was another band I saw before they got big (at the Pony of all places). On that gig they were loose, the songs were just forgettable Blink 182 throwaways, then a few years later they're all over the radio. Their songwriting and musicianship improved immensely and everybody's talking about them. Same thing with the Getaway Plan (except I didn't see them live, but similar story).

Agreed regarding the listener's patience. There's just too much musical information to absorb for the casual listener. That's essentially why Birds of Tokyo are far more successful, especially here in AU. And in these times where there's barely any patience being practiced, that small minority is getting smaller.

One could easily counterpoint this argument though just by saying "But Tool did it. They're successful with 12 minute songs and filling arenas". However there is only one Tool, and not only have they slugged it for ages, 4-5 years between albums, but they've also reached that creative freedom because of shorter more accessible songs (Opiate and the catchy hit songs from Undertow, namely Sober). And that creative freedom is incredibly hard to reach... and getting harder now too.

Speaking of comparisons, Australia has a nasty habit of comparing local acts to international ones. Case in point: what I just did. Karnivool, Cog, both compared to Tool. But the point I said earlier about punters forking out more on international acts in arenas becomes more harshly apparent.

 

[sunbasket]

Too much syncopation! To masses that listen to the 1+2 dance beat over and over AGAIN, continually having discussions on who has "great beats" when there's really only, like 2 beats: one has congas on the backbeat and the other utilizes a dinner triangle.

Pop is like an item at a fast food restaurant.

All of these songs have the right elements, and are a pleasing listen, but are a bit much deviation from the formula if we're looking for a hot single. And distorted guitars playing minor chords are just so abrasive! I bet'cha I know a lot of audience who, at best, would just think these guys are "another TooL". That idea came to my head when I turned my "musician ears" off and just "surface listened".

I don't know about you guys, but out here on the west coast the only rock really going on right now is "indie", whatever that is. Nickelback killed rock for a while, just a bit. One day boys, one day, metal will be mainstream again... actually..please no..

 

[Scar Symmetry]

The thing that I find most impressive about Karnivool is their ability to take Meshuggah style grooves and by using interesting vocal patterns somehow the final product ends up being radio friendly.

 

[bulb]

wait a sec, although they may not be big in the states, they are fucking HUGE in australia. They sell out 1000-1500 cap venues in the same city 2 or 3 nights in a row when they tour.

Also in europe they do well apparently, its just here in the states that people dont get them

 

[jymellis]

i dont care for them. but keep this in mind. one thing i have noticed through my years of loving/playing/listening to music. if musicians like it. or if "you" as a musician think a song or band are "way better" than anything on the radio. they probably are. but the majority of consumers that "push sales" and make bands "big". are musically ignorant. they dont want "awesome changes" or "the newest way to stack legato". they want something BASIC, that they understand.

 

[Bloody_Inferno]

wait a sec, although they may not be big in the states, they are fucking HUGE in australia. They sell out 1000-1500 cap venues in the same city 2 or 3 nights in a row when they tour.

Also in europe they do well apparently, its just here in the states that people dont get them

It did take them ages to reach those numbers. The small American venues they were playing were the same size venues they were playing here 5 years ago. But its the steady climb, a genuine love of music, and LOYAL fans that's got them to where they are.

I suppose that's how it's always been. Overnight sensations tend to go down as fast as they go up, and those who hang on are on a constant sink or swim situation. But that's the reward for a slow burning band.

And on a side note, it's also cool to see Dead Letter Circus following suit. They've been on the Aussie trenches from other bands until they hit a winning formula in 2005. Go Aussie!

 

[jymellis]

its just here in the states that people dont get them

as a musician, does it seem to you. like the only way to be "big" is to make it in usa? it seems more and more like if your not big here. it doesnt really matter i dont agree with that. but it seems like thats the way its turning.

 

[Esp Griffyn]

I don't think their name has helped them much, frankly it's a bit rubbish!

 

[JakePeriphery]

First video posted bored the fuck out of me within 7 seconds. Last video posted just sounded lame.

Not everyone is going to like some band with a silly name.

epic fail.

 

[Esp Griffyn]

epic fail.

Sorry, how is that a fail? He is allowed to dislike the tracks just as much as you are allowed to like them.