Why I haven't bought an Axe FX & how it can improve

[cyril v]

Preamps aren't the same as a digital processor.
Ever tried recording more than 2 tracks using USB?
It sucks. The latency is horrible.
Which is why in high end studios you do not see USB, you see Firewire, and in even higher end studios, ADAT or AES.
The Axe-FX has far more data to send out and USB connections can't handle the amount over an extended period of time.

Just throwing it out there but AxeFX pushing out as you think... it's limited to 48khz/24bit and it's worth pointing out thats the same amount of data you would be getting out of a PodX3 ( internal sample rate/bit depth). Off the top of my head I know the RME Babyface can handle 24bit/192khz over USB, so anything the AxeFX could possibly dish out would be a drop in a bucket.

Are there no latency issues with ADAT or AES? I honestly don't know, but a quick search online shows some horrendous latency times... but like I said, I don't know much about it.

USB sucks, why would you want that?

Okay, lets assume it sucks. What about USB3? Is the midi cable really all that great for interfacing with the PC?

 

[gunshow86de]

TL;DR

ITT: People who can't afford an Axe-FX trying to make themselves feel better about why they don't have one.


*The above is an example of what's commonly referred to as a joke*

 

[Taylor2]

Just throwing it out there but AxeFX pushing out as you think... it's limited to 48khz/24bit and it's worth pointing out thats the same amount of data you would be getting out of a PodX3 ( internal sample rate/bit depth). Off the top of my head I know the RME Babyface can handle 24bit/192khz over USB, so anything the AxeFX could possibly dish out would be a drop in a bucket.

It's not that it can't handle the bitrate.
It's that it would degrade the quality.
Hence why they use analog out, because it's balanced and lossless(mostly).

The BabyFace may be able to handle running 192kHz through USB, but again, that's because it's an audio preamp.
Not the same as a digital processor.
The Babyface is a portable two preamp interface.
It isn't transferring that much information anyways.
Besides, an audio preamp just amplifies the signal.
It doesn't process it, i.e simulations, effects, filters, etc.
THAT, is what makes up the brunt of the data.

Look at the Fireface 400+800. Which are the preamps you'd find in a REAL studio.
No USB.
If it works on the Babyface, then why not put it on the flagship items?
Because it simply isn't as good at transferring large amounts of information.
You would never see USB on a console.

Okay, lets assume it sucks. What about USB3? Is the midi cable really all that great for interfacing with the PC?

MIDI is better at transferring information as well.
That's why you don't see USB connected footswitches, and to a larger extent, no USB controlled rigs.
Instead, you see MIDI controlled rigs.
The connections are more stable, and MIDI is also transferrable as well; you can connect multiple devices through MIDI.


EDIT :

Just had a thought :
If you guys are just talking about USB so you can use the editing software, then I can see how it would be more convenient.
However, how many times have you had something plugged in via USB and had it fall out midway through a task?
I deal with a lot of external items and it happens all the time.
MIDI is a much more stable connection.

 

[jarrhead]

However, how many times have you had something plugged in via USB and had it fall out midway through a task?

Only once, and that was my Yamaha YPG535. I had a corruption in my Windows Registry.

 

[jarrhead]

Let's say USB 3.0 is even that bad.

What about a firewire output to go along with the idea of it being used as an interface, much like a POD?

 

[cyril v]

It's not that it can't handle the bitrate.
It's that it would degrade the quality.
Hence why they use analog out, because it's balanced and lossless(mostly).

I don't know if I'm nuts or what, but you tell me.. Do you notice a huge difference in quality between USB and Analog on the POD X3/PRO/HD?

I'm somewhat tech savvy, but I never thought there would be a reason to differentiate data over USB coming from a digital processor vs a regular audio interface... I always thought it just came down to bandwidth/throughput/latency and the source is irrelevant.

Either way, I'll concede because I guess that aspect is a bit over my head.

Just had a thought :
If you guys are just talking about USB so you can use the editing software, then I can see how it would be more convenient.
However, how many times have you had something plugged in via USB and had it fall out midway through a task?
I deal with a lot of external items and it happens all the time.
MIDI is a much more stable connection.

I can't say I remember that ever happening to me personally, but I have had firewire fall out many times until I went and bought an actual quality cable.

Let's say USB 3.0 is even that bad.

What about a firewire output to go along with the idea of it being used as an interface, much like a POD?

lol, okay.. sounds good. i guess it really doesn't matter, i just like digital outs.

 

[Taylor2]

Let's say USB 3.0 is even that bad.

What about a firewire output to go along with the idea of it being used as an interface, much like a POD?

That would require more space to integrate the software. Space it doesn't really have.

Keep in mind, a POD has what, 15 amp sims? Maybe?
POD Pro has almost 80 I think, plus some bass ones. However, how deep can you go into tweaking the amps? Not much beyond the basics.

The Axe-FX has 70 amps, and you can adjust literally everything on it.
Not to mention more effects, drive block sims, cab sims, mic sims...
And they are all far higher quality then a POD.

 

[Kali Yuga]

Okay, lets assume it sucks. What about USB3? Is the midi cable really all that great for interfacing with the PC?

USB3 is still weak, but WHY would someone want USB connection? The Axe FX would still need an interface, even if you could connect to PC via USB, so that just seems pointless to me.

I could be missing something here since I don't own and have never used the Axe FX.

 

[jarrhead]

POD Farm has:

•78 guitar amps
•24 guitar cabs
•28 bass amps
•22 bass cabs
•97 stompbox and studio effects
•6 mic preamps
•Dual Tone Functionality and A/B/Y box
•Four microphone models

 

[Taylor2]

I don't know if I'm nuts or what, but you tell me.. Is there a huge difference in quality between USB and Analog on the POD X3/PRO/HD?

I'm somewhat tech savvy, but I never thought there would be a reason to differentiate data over USB coming from a digital processor vs a regular audio interface... I always thought it just came down to bandwidth/throughput/latency and the source is irrelevant.

Either way, I'll concede because I guess that aspect is a bit over my head.

Can't say I've tried a POD, but in a comparison of high end audio equipment, I can hear a large difference in the final mix of things between analogue outputs/inputs and digital ones.
That's starting to get pretty nerdy at that point though.
The average consumer probably couldn't tell the difference.
That being said, the average consumer isn't using an Axe-FX.
I would think it is more to do with reliability.

Another lame analogy :

Would you use a microphone that connects USB or would you use the one that connects via XLR?
When dealing with most audio stuff, which do you see more?


I can't tell you what difference you will hear, as we are all different, but there has to be a reason as to why Cliff doesn't use USB.
And the reasons I stated are the ones that make the most sense to me.

I can't say I remember that ever happening to me personally, but I have had firewire fall out many times until I went and bought an actual quality cable.

Either way, MIDI is far more secure from a connection standpoint.
And XLR even more so.

POD Farm has:

•78 guitar amps
•24 guitar cabs
•28 bass amps
•22 bass cabs
•97 stompbox and studio effects
•6 mic preamps
•Dual Tone Functionality and A/B/Y box
•Four microphone models

Sure. But how much can you tweak them? And how many can you use at any given time?
And compare the quality.
Axe-FX is on par with most Eventide stuff.
The POD isn't anywhere near that.
Not to mention, you can't tweak anywhere near the same amount on the POD as you can on an Axe-FX.

 

[jarrhead]

USB3 is still weak, but WHY would someone want USB connection? The Axe FX would still need an interface, even if you could connect to PC via USB, so that just seems pointless to me.

Let's compare it to my cheap, $80 POD. It is just the POD and a USB cable, and I can record without another interface...

 

[Taylor2]

Let's compare it to my cheap, $80 POD. It is just the POD and a USB cable, and I can record without another interface...

Bear in mind, running the Axe-FX into an A-Designs Pacifica and then into a Lynx Aurora converter is going to provide quite superior audio quality to that of a POD going USB into an on-board soundcard.


Two different ball games mate.

 

[gunshow86de]

Let's compare it to my cheap, $80 POD. It is just the POD and a USB cable, and I can record without another interface...

USB is definitely the simplest and cheapest way to record; great for beginers. The Axe-FX is not intended for that demographic.

I'd much rather have Firewire, so I can hear all my recorded tracks, as well as the Axe-FX, through the same set of monitors. A USB connection is not fast enough to monitor in real time. If you use a USB interface with the Axe-FX, then you will need to use headphones, separate monitors, or speakers (connected directly to the Axe-FX) in order to hear yourself play without latency (I tried live monitoring with a USB interface, it delays nearly a full second).

Before you tell me about Line 6 not having that problem with USB; the POD Farm software enables you to greatly reduce the latency, but it is not zero-latency.

 

[Gameboypdc]

What's happening exactly?

Well my biggest issue was loading downloaded presets. Having to fish thru the presets that work and those that don't is rather annoying. I don't have this issue with Line 6 presets including old Pod Farm presets working with Pod Farm 2 and or any floorboard pedals they have released. I have to say because of this firmware issue it has become common for people to post long lists of their settings instead of trading their .syx files because people have issues loading presets. Not to mention that the preset manager section seems to work and look like a old ftp website with the account username and login. Also I have to state that Axe-Change has no search function so to even begin to look for anything or share presets that actually work I have to dive thru that mess. I also should probably state the bug issues i've had with random program crashing and AxeEdits failure to load user preset titles. I've also yet to complete a successful Midi Loopback test even though I seem to have full communications between the axe and my audio interface. Take note that these are just some of the issues I have, some are actual bugs with AxeEdit or the unit and some of these issues express upon their lack of user friendly software and or hardware.

Then there is something wrong with the interface.

I run a mono cable (left output balanced) into the front of my Firepod.
No issues whatsoever and I leave my output at noon.

I've noticed rapid changes in volume and unwanted noise just when changing between presets. Regardless if gain abuse is to blame, it becomes increasingly annoying to cycle thru that just to find a decent tone. So I find myself having to drop the output from noon to almost completely turned down. I noticed significantly less of an issue with this when using SPDIF and a 48KHz sample rate. Although as I stated before my issues with the Axe having to be set as the master clock unit with a forced 48KHz sample rate and how that effects my DAW and pre-recorded compositions. I understand the AxeFx is the top of the line unit, but as you said it's more of a live unit first and I am using it strictly professional studio recording.

 

[jarrhead]

Before you tell me about Line 6 not having that problem with USB; the POD Farm software enables you to greatly reduce the latency, but it is not zero-latency.

I already posted that it is not zero latency above.

 

[cyril v]

USB3 is still weak, but WHY would someone want USB connection? The Axe FX would still need an interface, even if you could connect to PC via USB, so that just seems pointless to me. Even with the Pod, I can carry it anywhere with me, find any computer and record ideas easily.

I could be missing something here since I don't own and have never used the Axe FX.

Please do elaborate a bit for us on how USB3 is weak. Also, a USB would negate the need for an audio interface.. if you're just making demo's, it'd be fuck all easy to just plug in a USB, record ideas ANYWHERE and call it a day.

UIf you use a USB interface with the Axe-FX, then you will need to use headphones, separate monitors, or speakers (connected directly to the Axe-FX) in order to hear yourself play without latency (I tried live monitoring with a USB interface, it delays nearly a full second).

A full second is unacceptable for anything, sounds like some other kind of issue is going on honestly. Was that like USB1 or something?

 

[jarrhead]

I have nothing to add to that post, but please fix your first quote. I definitely didn't say that. That was Taylor.

 

[cyril v]

I have nothing to add to that post, but please fix your first quote. I definitely didn't say that. That was Taylor.

I need to stop quoting.

And I'll revise my primary statement to end all USB BS and just say,

"Plz add firewire 400, thx"

 

[XEN]

I agree with most of the issues listed here, especially for the complexity of computer connectivity. A USB port for patch editing and exchange should have been a given, even if it were never used for direct recording.

I was very seriously contemplating getting one despite all that, but I got a deal I could not pass up on a Roadster, and after testing it out a few times I ran the slave out from it to the FX return of my Mark IV widebody combo.

The Roadster had the bias mod and is loaded with E34Ls. It is powering a Recto 4x12. The Mark IV is using standard 6L6s and is powering both its internal speaker and a Peavey BV115 bass cab.

Running 100% dry it is by far the richest sound I have ever experienced. I realized that I didn't want to play a digital simulation of this no matter how good it is.

Sorry about the crappy iPhone pic quality:

 

[gunshow86de]

A full second is unacceptable for anything, sounds like some other kind of issue is going on honestly. Was that like USB1 or something?

I connected my Axe-FX to my POD KB37 via midi. The POD connects to the computer via USB 2.0. It can read the signal fine (ie, you can record). USB is just far too slow to monitor live. So you have to play without hearing your guitar until after it's tracked (or you could use headphone or monitors direct out of the Axe using the second output channel).

It's certainly possible, but I'd rather just buy a quality interface than two sets of monitors (I hate trying to record with headphones on and the backing track coming out of the monitors).


I guess I should add that there's no way it's a computer issue. Mine's a hoss.