Why I haven't bought an Axe FX & how it can improve

[cyril v]

I connected my Axe-FX to my POD KB37 via midi. The POD connects to the computer via USB 2.0. It can read the signal fine (ie, you can record). USB is just far too slow to monitor live. So you have to play without hearing your guitar until after it's tracked (or you could use headphone or monitors direct out of the Axe using the second output channel).

It's certainly possible, but I'd rather just buy a quality interface than two sets of monitors (I hate trying to record with headphones on and the backing track coming out of the monitors).


I guess I should add that there's no way it's a computer issue. Mine's a hoss.

*snip*
I've never used that particular interface, so I dunno quite how it works or it's limitations, but live monitoring/recording works fine POD X3/HD.

Running 100% dry it is by far the richest sound I have ever experienced. I realized that I didn't want to play a digital simulation of this no matter how good it is.

Sorry about the crappy iPhone pic quality:

 

[Kali Yuga]

Let's compare it to my cheap, $80 POD. It is just the POD and a USB cable, and I can record without another interface...

POD and Axe FX are not comparable.

 

[jarrhead]

POD and Axe FX are not comparable.

I have a POD, and that's what I'll continue to use for recording until I can justify an Axe is good enough for that kind of cash. Regardless, it was rather the astonishment that I can record on an $80 unit without an interface, and a $2000 unit requires more.




If anybody who sees this posts knows the (I know this guy is totally cock-ridden) history of Periphery/Bulb and his axe/pod, then your opinion doesn't matter as you already know the answer.

MP3 Player SoundClick

MP3 Player SoundClick


Which is the axe; which is the pod? Clip 1 or clip 2?

 

[gunshow86de]

*snip*
I've never used that particular interface, so I dunno quite how it works or it's limitations, but live monitoring/recording works fine POD X3/HD.

When you record with a POD, do you have to use the POD Farm/Gearbox software? I know I did using Tone-port and the KB37, but they don't have the internal hardware that a POD does. Because the processing is done internal to the computer, the USB only has to send dry signal in and processed out, which is why it doesn't have the latency issues. I'm not sure if the bean-PODs do the same.

I did find a way to "rig" up the Axe to work with the POD. I just run POD Farm with a blank pre-set and set the mixer to output the dry signal. Not exactly the ideal way to run your $2,000 guitar processor. I'll be picking up a firewire interface and some brand spankin' new MIDI cables in a few weeks, then all will be right in my world.

 

[Larrikin666]

Isn't this why we have an official Axe-FX Q&A thread?

 

[jarrhead]

Isn't this why we have an official Axe-FX Q&A thread?

No. That's for questions. This is for comments and concerns and debate.

 

[Gameboypdc]

POD and Axe FX are not comparable.

I would have to politely disagree with that statement. I believe they are very much alike and comparable. I think the real issue here comes from the expectation that the AxeFX is like a POD on steroids. In this case and on some levels this is true, but the AxeFX is way more complex and way less plug and play for the everyday user. I think people have huge issues with the price of the unit not to mention some features or the lack of features. Perhaps some of us are used to a method and maybe seek more options and better quality, but overlook things that perhaps make it more complex to achieve what we have already achieved with other products just cleaner, sharper, better or any word used to describe a upgrade. I own an AxeFX ultra and I also own both versions of Pod Farm 1/2 and many other guitar amp sims, impulses...etc, and in the end it would be nice to pull all of the features from all of them into one box. The AxeFX just doesn't do that it's it own thing yet similar it's still its own so learn to deal with the differences and if it's not for you then I hope you find something that is.

Cheers everyone!
Gus

 

[cyril v]

When you record with a POD, do you have to use the POD Farm/Gearbox software? I know I did using Tone-port and the KB37, but they don't have the internal hardware that a POD does. Because the processing is done internal to the computer, the USB only has to send dry signal in and processed out, which is why it doesn't have the latency issues. I'm not sure if the bean-PODs do the same.

I did find a way to "rig" up the Axe to work with the POD. I just run POD Farm with a blank pre-set and set the mixer to output the dry signal. Not exactly the ideal way to run your $2,000 guitar processor. I'll be picking up a firewire interface and some brand spankin' new MIDI cables in a few weeks, then all will be right in my world.

Not a very ideal audio interface for a set-up like that for sure... a new interface will simplify the hell out of things for ya.

The other bean/pro/live pods had different ways to go about recording. The XT had the option to record with pod farm the way you mentioned, but I think you could record it already processed. The X3 you could do the same stuff, but you had to go about it a quite as backwards way and now the HD doesn't have a podfarm equivalent yet, so I've been using it mostly for direct recording demo's with the cab disabled.

Congrats on the acquisition!

 

[Funz]

Good post.
+1 on the usb port if not just to make working with axe-edit more convenient.
Good thread. I hope Cliff sees this.

 

[jarrhead]

Good post.
+1 on the usb port if not just to make working with axe-edit more convenient.
Good thread. I hope Cliff sees this.

Actually, I e-mailed Fractal Audio with a link to this thread!

 

[Taylor2]

Prepare for a huge post guys.

Well my biggest issue was loading downloaded presets. Having to fish thru the presets that work and those that don't is rather annoying. I don't have this issue with Line 6 presets including old Pod Farm presets working with Pod Farm 2 and or any floorboard pedals they have released. I have to say because of this firmware issue it has become common for people to post long lists of their settings instead of trading their .syx files because people have issues loading presets. Not to mention that the preset manager section seems to work and look like a old ftp website with the account username and login. Also I have to state that Axe-Change has no search function so to even begin to look for anything or share presets that actually work I have to dive thru that mess. I also should probably state the bug issues i've had with random program crashing and AxeEdits failure to load user preset titles. I've also yet to complete a successful Midi Loopback test even though I seem to have full communications between the axe and my audio interface. Take note that these are just some of the issues I have, some are actual bugs with AxeEdit or the unit and some of these issues express upon their lack of user friendly software and or hardware.

The issue is, because Cliff updates the firmware so often, and updates do include changing parameters inside the unit itself, you cannot expect it to work when different software values in the programming itself are different.
For instance, he changed some core values in how the presence control works, and it's only understandable that a patch from before wouldn't properly work in the patch afterwards.
You'd get errors with the presence pot.
I don't know. It makes sense to me.
Then again, I don't download patches, I pretty well just make my own.


I'm surprised at all of the difficulty you've had with the software though.
I mean, it wont be the easiest software to use, simply because it isn't designed to be, but I still find it strange you have so many problems.

I've noticed rapid changes in volume and unwanted noise just when changing between presets. Regardless if gain abuse is to blame, it becomes increasingly annoying to cycle thru that just to find a decent tone. So I find myself having to drop the output from noon to almost completely turned down. I noticed significantly less of an issue with this when using SPDIF and a 48KHz sample rate. Although as I stated before my issues with the Axe having to be set as the master clock unit with a forced 48KHz sample rate and how that effects my DAW and pre-recorded compositions. I understand the AxeFx is the top of the line unit, but as you said it's more of a live unit first and I am using it strictly professional studio recording.

That is even more strange.
I have zero volume changes or unwanted noise when changing patches.

No comment to that really.

At this point we are just arguing semantics though.. it doesn't matter how much better the quality the stuff is or the tweakablity of it. That really has nothing to do with the hardware.

But that's the point of the Axe-FX.
The tweakability and extent of the adjustments you can make.
I mean, USB is decent for data transfer and all. It's simple and easy to use.
But for professional recording, it's not the best choice. It simply doesn't have the bandwidth.
And besides, why would Cliff add yet another piece to the PCB that could potentially cause problems, when MIDI is already on there and works just fine?
Almost every interface comes with MIDI, so why?

I have a POD, and that's what I'll continue to use for recording until I can justify an Axe is good enough for that kind of cash. Regardless, it was rather the astonishment that I can record on an $80 unit without an interface, and a $2000 unit requires more.

Well, yeah.

Here's a car analogy.


If you want to drive a Honda Civic, you just jump in and go. Turn the key, put it in gear, and go.
In manual, the gear changes are easy and simple. There's not much stuff to worry about to keep it rolling. Put gas in it, change the oil every so often.

Now, you get a Ferrari 458. Do you really think it's going to be as easy?
It costs $160,000 more, but does that money make it easier to drive?
Not a damn chance in hell it does.
That car is so difficult to drive, as is any Ferrari or high end super car, that it should be a crime.
Just the same as the BMW M5. You have to set the suspension, the amount of power, the amount of 4 wheel drive influence....etc.
Yet they still sell. However, their demographic is usually people who know how to drive them.


It's the same deal with the POD vs. an Axe-FX.
A hobbyist who doesn't know anything about recording isn't going to jump in and buy an Axe-FX.
It's a high-end piece of gear, and why would you wreck everything that makes it high-end by bogging it down using USB and an in-house interface?
That's like taking a Ferrari and putting the Civic engine in, if such an atrocity could take place.
The guys who buy an Axe-FX are guys who are already familiar with the recording scene. Or at least I hope so.
And if you're familiar with the recording scene, then you have a preamp/interface, a good computer, dedicated software, and have no use for included software.

I.E (another analogy for the recording geeks)

An SSL 4040G+ board can range at the very cheapest for 24 channels, over $100,000.
You would think that, hey, it should be all set up and ready to go for that price!
No.
Not even close.
You need to buy all the cabling, which would cost at least another $20,000. Then you need converters : another $20,000.
That's just the base needs to make it WORK.

Just because it costs more doesn't mean it's easier to use.
In fact, with most everything in life, it means it's more intricate and difficult.

 

[Funz]

Actually, I e-mailed Fractal Audio with a link to this thread!

 

[gunshow86de]

Actually, I e-mailed Fractal Audio with a link to this thread!

What's that I hear? Ah yes, Cliff laughing about your "USB" connectors.

 

[gunshow86de]

lot 'o text, car analogy

I was gonna use the analogy of trying to hook up a Ferrari engine to a golf cart transmission (the Axe-FX being the Ferrari engine (obviously) and the golf cart tranny lol being a USB interface).

 

[cyril v]

But that's the point of the Axe-FX.
The tweakability and extent of the adjustments you can make.
I mean, USB is decent for data transfer and all. It's simple and easy to use.
But for professional recording, it's not the best choice. It simply doesn't have the bandwidth.
And besides, why would Cliff add yet another piece to the PCB that could potentially cause problems, when MIDI is already on there and works just fine?
Almost every interface comes with MIDI, so why?

Got ya.. I'll admit that it's definitely not "the best choice" and thats probably the only choice he would settle for. You mentioned firewire before and said it's the industry standard pretty much in studios. I say how about him adding that then? Firewire 400 Cliff if you're watching.


I'll be honest here, I don't have a $5k audio interface with world class preamps or $20k ssl desks to mix my stuff and unless I start up my own studio (that'd be cool), then I'm probably never going to have them, it'd be overkill.

In my situation, which is probably like with most guitarists that don't own/run a studio, a digital option would be preferred and I'm not sure since I don't own an AxeFX but I think I would probably get better results with a digital-out than going into the pre's on my $400 audio interface.

I was gonna use the analogy of trying to hook up a Ferrari engine to a golf cart transmission (the Axe-FX being the Ferrari engine (obviously) and the golf cart tranny lol being a USB interface).

lol, thats quite a visual.

 

[cyril v]

Ok here is a bona fide legit addition... how about support for dynamic convolution impulses?

check, OwnHammer.com - Home for info on that.

 

[Taylor2]

Ok here is a bona fide legit addition... how about support for dynamic convolution impulses?

check, OwnHammer.com - Home for info on that.

FYI, those packs also come in .syx form for Axe-FX users.

But the 3D sound style packs would require programming that would take up too much memory in the Axe.
Hence why Nebula is so expensive.

I've tried them though in .wav form, and they are actually really good. I'd dare say better than Redwirez.

 

[JJ Rodriguez]

I have a POD, and that's what I'll continue to use for recording until I can justify an Axe is good enough for that kind of cash. Regardless, it was rather the astonishment that I can record on an $80 unit without an interface, and a $2000 unit requires more.

Then you're not the targeted consumer for the Axe

The Axe is a premium piece of equipment. If you seriously can't afford like $100-200 for some kind of interface, you probably shouldn't be looking at spending $2k on an Ultra.

I'm also assuming you haven't tried an Axe FX. I've tried pretty much every L6 modeler there is, and owned a Toneport for awhile. I seriously could NOT get a usable tone from any of it, or at least anything I'd want to be caught dead using for anything other than a practice setup. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying that I couldn't do it. I had usable tones from the Axe within an hour. Interface and ease of use are also an important factor when I look for a piece of gear.

I bought the Axe when the US dollar raped the Canadian dollar, and I can easily justify the price even when I factor in I only use it for effects/noise gate/etc. I probably paid about $2500 Canadian for the Axe once I got raped at the border, and paid shipping.

 

[jarrhead]

Then you're not the targeted consumer for the Axe

The Axe is a premium piece of equipment. If you seriously can't afford like $100-200 for some kind of interface, you probably shouldn't be looking at spending $2k on an Ultra.

When was this said? I have several thousand dollars in musical equipment.

I'm also assuming you haven't tried an Axe FX. I've tried pretty much every L6 modeler there is, and owned a Toneport for awhile. I seriously could NOT get a usable tone from any of it, or at least anything I'd want to be caught dead using for anything other than a practice setup. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying that I couldn't do it. I had usable tones from the Axe within an hour. Interface and ease of use are also an important factor when I look for a piece of gear.

I bought the Axe when the US dollar raped the Canadian dollar, and I can easily justify the price even when I factor in I only use it for effects/noise gate/etc. I probably paid about $2500 Canadian for the Axe once I got raped at the border, and paid shipping.

Awesome.

 

[JJ Rodriguez]

When was this said? I have several thousand dollars in musical equipment.

I just feel that if you're investing thousands of dollars in music gear, an interface for a couple hundred bucks seems kind of negligible