Why is pickup technology so slow to evolve?

[fantom]

Let's pretend I am a manufacturer of pickups, switches, and pots. Even if it is 10 cents per device to add a wiring harness, at the scale of millions of devices, it is still hundreds of thousands of dollars. If 1 out of every maybe 1000 guitar players uses aftermarket pickups, is it worth that cash? That means I'm paying something like $100 each for the 0.1% of buyers that want the feature. I might as well give them a free pickup.

Isn't it easier to assume a guitar tech can spend 20 cents and 5 extra minutes to install a harness if the customer wants one? Or that the customer can do it themselves?

Now my real question, do manufacturers even do this if you ask them to custom order with a harness preinstalled instead of leads?

 

[TedEH]

If 1 out of every maybe 1000 guitar players uses aftermarket pickups, is it worth that cash?

As much as I see the point you're getting at, I think there could be a scenario where the answer is yes. If it was novel enough, and won you enough market share you didn't previously have, then it could be worth it. Doesn't seem likely to apply to the big existing names already, but I could see it as an angle for a smaller / niche / startup brand as a means to gain traction. At that point, if it gets big enough to take a significant share from the bigger players, then they're have to follow suit to gain their share back.

Is that likely to happen...? Nah probably not.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

I'm talking about the early days of aftermarket pickups when it was dominated by SD and Dimarzio. Third party pickups as stock parts were extremely rare then. If SD and Dimarzio could've aligned on a standard connector and gotten even a few OEMs (not even Fender/Gibson tier) on board with this system (and not necessarily their pickups, just the connectors), they could've grown that industry faster.

If it caught on with a few OEMs and they saw sales increase because people preferred to buy guitars that they could easily swap pickups on, I believe it would've spread and become standard.

Again, we somehow have that for freaking desk chair wheels.

SD made the liberator stuff, which is all screw connectors and basically solderless. OEMs arent going to waste money on that stuff when solder costs barely anything though.

 

[Lemonbaby]

SD made the liberator stuff, which is all screw connectors and basically solderless. OEMs arent going to waste money on that stuff when solder costs barely anything though.

... and is a matter of minutes for a single PU change. Hold the soldering iron to three our four spots - done. I don't even see the issue to be honest.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

As much as I see the point you're getting at, I think there could be a scenario where the answer is yes. If it was novel enough, and won you enough market share you didn't previously have, then it could be worth it. Doesn't seem likely to apply to the big existing names already, but I could see it as an angle for a smaller / niche / startup brand as a means to gain traction. At that point, if it gets big enough to take a significant share from the bigger players, then they're have to follow suit to gain their share back.

Is that likely to happen...? Nah probably not.

No need for hypotheticals.

Two of the largest pickup manufacturers, SD and EMG, and some larger players like Fishman and Gibson, and even smaller niche operators like GFS, all offer solder-less, plug-n-play options and weirdly they haven't absolutely conquered the world.

There are also businesses like Mad Hatter and Mojotone who have been offering solder-less harnesses for many years and also don't seem to be making vast fortunes off them.

Nothing in this thread, which tends to pop up yearly in some form, is untread water.

And because it hasn't been posted yet:

 

[bostjan]

What kind of quick connectors are you guys wanting? I have the rudimentary soldering skills and basic googling skills to kickstart a business attaching quick-connect bullshit to pickups and switches. I'm not greedy, but I'd be expected to be compensated for the materials and for my time. I'm sure roughly half the regular users of this board could do the same.

The thing is, that I doubt more than one or two people would be willing to pay what would end up being like $150-200ish plus shipping to have quick connectors for each guitar in their collection.

And that's probably not a heck of a lot more than what an OEM would wind up charging for the option, depending on the sorts of connectors used.

 

[bostjan]

Highly relevant.

Sometimes people cite how USB, DB9, SCSI, etc. connectors were so universalized with PCs and phones, but I like to point out that people tend to replace their PC or phone ever few years. If you look at pro audio equipment, there is a huge mess of connectors: optical, RCA, 1/4", 1/8"/3mm, ceramic, XLR, Neutrik, etc., etc, because people don't replace their pro audio equipment as often. In fact, when you get into PC-adjacent electronics, still, in 2022, the most popular connector is still DB9, even though PC stopped bothering with that connector at least 15 years ago, so now you have to have all kinds of RS-232-to-USB and RS-485-to-USB and RS-422-to-USB-C etc. adapters, even though it seems ridiculous, some fringes of the industry are slow to change.

 

[Demiurge]

I'd enjoy the convenience of a universal quick-connect, but I realize that when changing a pickup the soldering itself- even though I'm not great at it- is the shortest part of the process. And I've seen enough guitarist who seem terrified of adjusting truss rods or pickup height to get the sense that quick connect isn't going to change the market too much; people who can change their own pickups are still going to do the same and the people who won't probably still won't.

 

[odibrom]

... the best way is still the DIY way in this matter. One finds what works for him and gets things done. That previously shown PCB connectors approach has been functional to since I started with those and I've swapped pickups and switches several times along the way. This thing works for whatever circuitry type one is to use, just that if one is using regular passive hums and then swaps them out for Lace's X-Bars, one shouldn't expect the switching to work the same way and less so if the change is from passives to actives...

 

[profwoot]

I've got Obsidian Wire solderless harnesses in my LP and strat, and they're great. I think the strat is settled (Lollar Special Blonde set) but I'll swap out the LP pickups at least once more. I don't mind soldering but it's way more convenient to swap on those two.

I do think folks would be a lot more likely to swap out pickups if all guitars had solderless systems, but not sure it'd be enough to make it worth it for the companies.

 

[odibrom]

I've got Obsidian Wire solderless harnesses in my LP and strat, and they're great. I think the strat is settled (Lollar Special Blonde set) but I'll swap out the LP pickups at least once more. I don't mind soldering but it's way more convenient to swap on those two.

I do think folks would be a lot more likely to swap out pickups if all guitars had solderless systems, but not sure it'd be enough to make it worth it for the companies.

... it probably should be the guitar companies and not the pickup brands to have the solderless system installed in the first place... then things might start to change a bit...

 

[TedEH]

The only company I can think of that would really benefit from putting those in by default might be Ibanez, but then including them is sort of like admitting that you know your stocks are no good.

 

[BurningRome]

If pickup companies worked together to do quick connect standarized set ups they'd for certain sell more pickups.

I absolutely want to try all sorts of pickups but don't want to wire them up. PIckups, priced relative to guitar pedals I think would sell so hard if any Joe could easily swap them out.

Really, the next best option would be more guitar pedals that would simulate the pickups you want like what we have going on with amp profiles now.

 

[bostjan]

The only company I can think of that would really benefit from putting those in by default might be Ibanez, but then including them is sort of like admitting that you know your stocks are no good.

Ha, I was kind of thinking the same thing about how it might be perceived. I happen to think Ibanez stock pickups are more along the lines of "okay, I guess" - Washburn used to make some really nice guitars with some really truly unimpressive pickups, though. Dean also comes to mind, but I know their higher end stuff has some decent pickups.

Seeing as how two of those three manufacturers stand a chance of not making any guitars next year, I guess it doesn't much matter anymore, though. :/

 

[bostjan]

If pickup companies worked together to do quick connect standarized set ups they'd for certain sell more pickups.

I absolutely want to try all sorts of pickups but don't want to wire them up. PIckups, priced relative to guitar pedals I think would sell so hard if any Joe could easily swap them out.

Really, the next best option would be more guitar pedals that would simulate the pickups you want like what we have going on with amp profiles now.

Seriously, though, the soldering skill required to swap pickups you can honestly learn in less time than it takes to swap the pickups. I don't understand why this is seen as a potential barrier. Just heat up the iron, touch the end of the wire with the iron and with the solder to tin it, then press the wire onto the connection point with the iron for 3 s and hold it in place with tweezers or whatever once you remove the iron, then inspect the solder to make sure it looks shiny. That's it. You don't need fancy flux or anything unless your solder is horrible. It's even simpler than riding a bicycle or swimming.

 

[BurningRome]

It's not super difficult and I do it at times, I just hate doing it. I'd rather drop something in and roll vs wiring, burning up adjacent wire, accidentally getting my hot iron on my guitar etc, these are things I've done and it's because I'm actually not that good at it and I'd bet a lot of guitar players are more in my situation than those that are skilled and clean at doing it. In all honesty, pickup swapping is a hassle but, you're right, it's not hard.

 

[odibrom]

It's not super difficult and I do it at times, I just hate doing it. I'd rather drop something in and roll vs wiring, burning up adjacent wire, accidentally getting my hot iron on my guitar etc, these are things I've done and it's because I'm actually not that good at it and I'd bet a lot of guitar players are more in my situation than those that are skilled and clean at doing it. In all honesty, pickup swapping is a hassle but, you're right, it's not hard.

It's because of all of that I use those connectors I posted back in page 3 of this thread. It removes the soldering out of the guitar cavity. It allows one to do the soldering wherever one wants, away from any precious finish of any expensive guitar. One just has to tin the the pickups' leads and once one understands what START and END means on humbucker wiring it's a breeze to go from DiMarizio to Duncans to Bare Knuckles to Lundgreens to custom boutique or whatever brand with the same type of construction without having to redo the wiring from scratch. Obviously, one has to be acknowledged in guitar and pickup circuitry and how things work. Swapping pickups this way means that the pickups will work exactly like the previously installed. Oh, and if a combination turns out to be out of phase, just swap some lead wires...

This approach also allows to experiment with a few variants, depending on the circuit design/concept. For example if I want to compare Inner coils to outer coils of a 2x Hums guitar, I just have to swap some lead wires on those connectors and I'm done. Again and obviously depending on the circuit design, there are other options that will change as well...

 

[Lemonbaby]

The only company I can think of that would really benefit from putting those in by default might be Ibanez, but then including them is sort of like admitting that you know your stocks are no good.

Ibanez uses a solderless system on some components of their AZES series. It was obviously introduced to make assembly quicker and eliminate potential error sources of the complex switching scheme. Here's the stuff I ripped out of my AZES40.

 

[BurningRome]

It's because of all of that I use those connectors I posted back in page 3 of this thread. It removes the soldering out of the guitar cavity. It allows one to do the soldering wherever one wants, away from any precious finish of any expensive guitar. One just has to tin the the pickups' leads and once one understands what START and END means on humbucker wiring it's a breeze to go from DiMarizio to Duncans to Bare Knuckles to Lundgreens to custom boutique or whatever brand with the same type of construction without having to redo the wiring from scratch. Obviously, one has to be acknowledged in guitar and pickup circuitry and how things work. Swapping pickups this way means that the pickups will work exactly like the previously installed. Oh, and if a combination turns out to be out of phase, just swap some lead wires...

This approach also allows to experiment with a few variants, depending on the circuit design/concept. For example if I want to compare Inner coils to outer coils of a 2x Hums guitar, I just have to swap some lead wires on those connectors and I'm done. Again and obviously depending on the circuit design, there are other options that will change as well...

I'll check it out your reference, thx! I had unfortunately not read this entire thread so I had gone past it.

 

[ElysianGuitars]

I like using stuff like this:

Lever Style Connectors

Makes swapping pickups really simple, and it's cheap and compact. Most control cavities have enough room to fit this sort of thing.