Wintersun's Groundhog's Day Thread

[oracles]

Oh no, there is no future and Jari should have done entirely something else than music So it would guarantee that those albums he's making would be never released.

They'll never get released anyway, Jari will continue to regurgitate contradictory excuses about why he cant until he's got no one left to grift.

 

[BenSolace]

Median salary in Finland is around 3200€ per month, or 38 400€ in a year plus benefits. Though taxation of that is going to be quite mad after you earn about 4-5k€ a month. Education is almost free and they don't leave you to massive debts in hospital if something happens.

Yeah in GBP that's about the same yearly salary as the UK average. £30k a year salary gets you about £2k a month after taxes. Our healthcare, though troubled, is also free, but higher education definitely is not haha

It often throws me when the Americans talk about $150k salaries and such being common when in the UK you'd have to be, like, a CEO or something to earn close to that IME.

 

[Metropolis]

They'll never get released anyway, Jari will continue to regurgitate contradictory excuses about why he cant until he's got no one left to grift.

So you really believe that he would derail everything in such way. Doesn't seem like a very good plan in the long run regarding to anyone's career. Or intelligent in any sense. If you haven't noticed that Jari is quite a long term planner. At this point there's no any other excuses than the studio space he wanted for finishing Time II. And we are not there yet in this probably a decade long process. I think we are going to see a new Wintersun album sooner than some people think.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

If you haven't noticed that Jari is quite a long term planner. At this point there's no any other excuses than the studio space he wanted for finishing Time II. And we are not there yet in this probably a decade long process.

By "long term planner" I presume you mean he's planning to start this "probably a decade long process" sometime way in the future, as there is no evidence of any progress whatsoever. He hasn't even purchased the land yet.

An actual long-term planner would be getting everything lined up (buying land, obtaining planning approval etc.), rather than spending many many thousands on short-term purchases (interim home studio equipment, custom guitars etc.). Even if Jari hasn't used any of the crowdfund money yet (however unlikely that is), there is evidence of actions that are very short-term orientated, but nothing long-term.

The only thing that seems to be long-term is the wait for Time II

 

[TedEH]

So you really believe that he would derail everything in such way.

I mean, there's 100 pages of precedent that Jari will basically just do whatever he feels like, regardless of whatever pressures come from the public or whatever other professional commitments he might have - so, yes.

Doesn't seem like a very good plan in the long run regarding to anyone's career.

Now you're getting it.

If you haven't noticed that Jari is quite a long term planner.

One mans "long term planner" is another's "expert procrastinator". I've been long-term-planning to clean my bathroom for a long time now, but pffff there are guitars out there that won't buy themselves, and I've only got so much time in a day.

At this point there's no any other excuses

And we are not there yet in this probably a decade long process.

Ok, we've led the horse to the water.....

 

[nightflameauto]

Ok, we've led the horse to the water.....

And rather than drinking it, he's decided to use it as a toilet and ruin it for everyone else.

 

[BenSolace]

Given there was (IIRC) three planned crowdfunding campaigns planned, I'm interested to see the response and results for the second one if it ever materialises.

 

[Metropolis]

I mean, there's 100 pages of precedent that Jari will basically just do whatever he feels like, regardless of whatever pressures come from the public or whatever other professional commitments he might have - so, yes.


Now you're getting it.


One mans "long term planner" is another's "expert procrastinator". I've been long-term-planning to clean my bathroom for a long time now, but pffff there are guitars out there that won't buy themselves, and I've only got so much time in a day.



Ok, we've led the horse to the water.....

Why he should do it in any other way, or how people act like they know what is better. How does one prioritize or takes the public pressure even seriously, because it's not them to decide about it anyway. People act like they didn't know it's going to take more than couple of years. Assumptions that he's locked into not releasing any albums are just weird and stupid.

 

[TedEH]

Why he should do it in any other way, or how people act like they know what is better.

Jari isn't the first musician to ever exist. There's precedent for what to expect in terms of workflows and timelines. There's a whole industry from which to draw comparisons and decide whether or not there are better ways to do things.

takes the public pressure even seriously, because it's not them to decide about it anyway.

It is up to them to decide if they're paying for it. If nobody was investing time or effort on money or mindshare, then there would be no pressure. This is the difference between joe-blow on a forum being a bedroom guitar warrior, and what's supposed to be a professional doing a job.

 

[gnoll]

there's still a chance he'll release something awesome someday

Not likely.

The problem is he thinks he's special and that his music is special and that he knows how to do everything himself.

He thinks if he just has the best guitars, the best monitors, the most processing power etc. then his epic otherworldly vision will come to life.

But he's kidding himself. He isn't special. He's just a decent musician who once wrote a solid melodic death/power metal album.

We've already seen the result of him being in over his head. It's a mess of unfocused songwriting, bloated arrangements and muddy mixes that don't quite work.

Even if he does release something one day, it's unlikely to be good since he refuses to 1) play to his strengths and 2) take help from other people.

 

[ArtDecade]

Not likely.

The problem is he thinks he's special and that his music is special and that he knows how to do everything himself.

He thinks if he just has the best guitars, the best monitors, the most processing power etc. then his epic otherworldly vision will come to life.

But he's kidding himself. He isn't special. He's just a decent musician who once wrote a solid melodic death/power metal album.

We've already seen the result of him being in over his head. It's a mess of unfocused songwriting, bloated arrangements and muddy mixes that don't quite work.

Even if he does release something one day, it's unlikely to be good since he refuses to 1) play to his strengths and 2) take help from other people.

Harsh, mate. Don't forget that Jari (@Metropolis) is going to read this and have their feelings hurt.

 

[Metropolis]

If one wants to work on music from ground up to the end side of things and marketing it, then he does. It doesn't have to do anything about superiority of anyones work or way to do it. It's just something that Jari prefers. Acting like those traits are inherently bad things about a musician go again to the weird and stupid argument category. Like when did searching best suiting gear or working strategies become a bad thing? It would be much wiser to assume that anyone isn't objectively best and there are different ways to do things and you have to find what suits best for you. Jari's way of doing things certainly doesn't suit for a lot of people.

By watching the credits of previous albums he hasn't really refused ever to take help from other people, and it would be quite wise to play by his strengths. I assume that doing music twenty years professionally has taught something.

But these are again someone's fantasies about Jari's "superior complex", which has nothing to do how he works anyway.

Harsh, mate. Don't forget that Jari (@Metropolis) is going to read this and have their feelings hurt.

I have no feelings, just cold hard logic.

 

[mmr007]

Metropolis…if you are a fan of cold hard logic read what what Gnoll posted and just take the L

 

[ArtDecade]

 

[Metropolis]

 

[Edika]

Metropolis…if you are a fan of cold hard logic

View attachment 129281

I think this more or less sums it up, no?

 

[Mboogie7]

View attachment 129281

Is this your reaction when sound logic is presented to you?

 

[j3ps3]

I assume that doing music twenty years professionally has taught something.

So with Jari that's like... an album worth of material? such professional

 

[Nag]

If one wants to work on music from ground up to the end side of things and marketing it, then he does. It doesn't have to do anything about superiority of anyones work or way to do it. It's just something that Jari prefers. Acting like those traits are inherently bad things about a musician go again to the weird and stupid argument category. Like when did searching best suiting gear or working strategies become a bad thing? It would be much wiser to assume that anyone isn't objectively best and there are different ways to do things and you have to find what suits best for you. Jari's way of doing things certainly doesn't suit for a lot of people.

By watching the credits of previous albums he hasn't really refused ever to take help from other people, and it would be quite wise to play by his strengths. I assume that doing music twenty years professionally has taught something.

But these are again someone's fantasies about Jari's "superior complex", which has nothing to do how he works anyway.



I have no feelings, just cold hard logic.

Like when did searching best suiting gear or working strategies become a bad thing?

When a musician takes it to the extreme where he's completely unable to produce any music (and probably does it with money he was given for something else), that is a bad thing.

Jari's way of doing things certainly doesn't suit for a lot of people.

It certainly doesn't suit musicians who try to actually release music. Otherwise every band would do it.

I assume that doing music twenty years professionally has taught something.

Apparently, not how to get shit done.

If one wants to work on music from ground up to the end side of things and marketing it, then he does.

If he's doing it on gifted money and it doesn't produce any results, then no, he shouldn't.

But these are again someone's fantasies about Jari's "superior complex", which has nothing to do how he works anyway.

He works? On what?

I have no feelings, just cold hard logic.

I have a degree in using cold hard logic, and no, you're somewhere between delusional and gullible.

 

[Metropolis]

Is this your reaction when sound logic is presented to you?

At least I'm not trying to mask everything with cringe levels of sarcasm and endless amount of vile foolishness, or arguing about things just for fun I don't know shit about.

So with Jari that's like... an album worth of material? such professional

Three albums by Wintersun, and two by Ensiferum.

When a musician takes it to the extreme where he's completely unable to produce any music (and probably does it with money he was given for something else), that is a bad thing.

How much does it matter, can you put it on some kind of scale and state it's a real reason for it?

It certainly doesn't suit musicians who try to actually release music. Otherwise every band would do it.

Where does it say he's not trying to? Other than some people's delusions.

Apparently, not how to get shit done.

I got quite different attitude from what he said about doing The Forest Seasons two years and really learn "how to get shit done".

I have a degree in using cold hard logic, and no, you're somewhere between delusional and gullible.

Congratulations, many others may have too.