Woe is me, is there no replacement for an expensive drum room?

[Oxidation_Shed]

Hey dudes, I recently did my first recording with proper drums (up until now I have been using DFH EZX and Metalhead EZX where everything has been done for me) and I have a bit of a problem: my cymbals sound horribly lo-fi and I can't get a sound I like out of them.

Now my drummer mic'ed up the kit, he assures me that he researched proper mic'ing technique, and I've made sure that the tracks are all in phase with each other but; no matter what I try; the cymbals still sound a bit lame

I am going a little bit crazy here, I've spent well over 48 hours just working on drums for this one track - that includes time spent learning new techniques - and the one thing that still jumps at me are the cymbals. We recorded drums in my college's recording studio for free. Now, I know it was free so I can't really complain, the live room was in no way acoustically treated and just sounds atrocious.

I've started trying to re-enforce the overheads with samples from EZDrummer, but I don't want it to sound like a drum machine if possible, and so far I've onyl done the first hit to see how it sounds.

Has anyone got some tips for me, because I am going insane trying to get a good sound? This is just instrumental so far and the leads are just the guide guitar tracks so excuse any sloppy playing and no variation.

I leave myself at your mercy and thank you in advance!

Embodiment Instrumental by Oxidation_Shed on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

 

[Kurkkuviipale]

Nah, it's not the cymbals that are lacking, but the rest of the kit. Do some proper sample replacement on snare and compress the drum bus and it'll be fine. To me, that clip sounds just raw, the sounds are really good to start with. The toms might need some EQ'ing and all, but you'll do fine.

It's a common mistake to think that the cymbals will sound just like in SD2.0. Just take a quick look at the stuff you listened two years ago and you'll see that it was nothing fancy back then.

What I'd do would be to add some really top end to them and compress them with low attack and slow release. Reverb would work, but it tends to make the cymbals sound awkward.

 

[Oxidation_Shed]

Thanks for the reply
Sorry to ask, but, what do you mean by proper replacement of the snare? As in completely replace the snare with samples?
Any tips on the tom EQ'ing? It's the one drum(s) I seem to not be able to find some decent advice on EQ'ing?
I will try that this very evening, thank you for the advice

 

[Kurkkuviipale]

No problem mister,

The snare sounds a little thin. Boost it with samples, process it good, and you'll get a more even and fatter tone.

EQ'ing toms is pretty easy. Just get yourself a freq analyzer, check where the tom fundamental tone is and boost it. That and proper compressing will do the trick most of the times. To reduce the rim and boxyness you'd want to scoop mids just after the toms fundamental tone.

E: You don't have to replace the snare completely. I usually keep the real snare to give it a little character you can't get from slate or superior drummer.

 

[Oxidation_Shed]

Thank you again, sir.
If I can get a mix sounding half as good as some of yours, I will be an extremely happy man. I'll give that all a crack when I get the chance

 

[cerdom]

Drums don't sound bad to me, as if Kurk's word wasn't good enough.

 

[KingAenarion]

Everything Kurk has said so far has been great... but I think there are some key questions to be asked as well first.

What microphones did you used on ALL of the drums, what preamps/interface is important as well.

Also...

Now my drummer mic'ed up the kit, he assures me that he researched proper mic'ing technique, and I've made sure that the tracks are all in phase with each other but; no matter what I try; the cymbals still sound a bit lame

THIS infuriates me. Googling Drum micing technique or reading a book on drum mic placement does not necessarily mean you'll get the right positioning. Before you blame any room for a crap sound, you need GOOD microphones and a the best placement for the sound you're looking for on your kit.

Was the drummer using new skins? Did you isolate the snare mics from the hi hats? Did you get the drummer to play each drum over and over and find the best place for the microphones to go?

There is so much more to it than just placing it in the way someone else or a textbook tell you to place it.

 

[Oxidation_Shed]

THIS infuriates me. Googling Drum micing technique or reading a book on drum mic placement does not necessarily mean you'll get the right positioning. Before you blame any room for a crap sound, you need GOOD microphones and a the best placement for the sound you're looking for on your kit.

I think I should clarify, he can be a little bit stupid and very lazy. So yeah it could well be the mic placement. The snare and kick are fully replaced anyway because they were pretty dire and there wasn't much I could do with them. With the right compression and a few hours work I manged to get a decent sound for indie rock - but no where near a death metal sound.

The whole kit had fresh skins on and was tuned the night before and on the morning or recording. I know it was a mistake but - mostly because we recorded in the middle of our AS Levels and I was a little per-occupied to say the least - I just left it to him to sort out as he's the drummer (makes sense to me) and I just worked the control room.

As far as I remember, it was Rode NT-2A's as overheads, SM-57 for hats and snare, e604's for the toms and I can't remember for the bass drum.

But like I say, the snare and kick were too dire to use.

I know it may be a case of just making the best of what I've got and I won't get a sound I'm 100% happy with, but have you got any tips for "de-raw-ing" (for lack of a better term) the track?

 

[Kurkkuviipale]

By the way, the bass is non existent in the mix. Is there a bass? Bass (yes, bass guitar) can be a huge factor on the drum sound.

Use a lot of time in front of the EQ. Buss the drums and compress the bus channel. Compress the drums individually. You might also want to sweep through multiple samples and maybe use multiple samples on one drum. That will give you a fatter sound to start with. Use more reverb on the snare. Always use send-reverbing, meaning that you send the snare to a channel with reverb (mix set to 100%).

 

[Oxidation_Shed]

There is a bass, but it's tuned to the same pitch as the guitars. I haven't really gotten around to mixing it yet though so at the moment it's just the out from our bassist's head through a cab impulse.
It's very noticeable upon removing it, but it's not terribly prominent. I'm not sure whether that's to do with the tuning or the bass tone. But I've never done a recording before with the whole same pitch thing going on. I know Meshuggah do it, but they're a lot lower than us so I do wonder if it's appropriate.

Reverb is something that terrifies me, if I'm honest. We mostly do fast paced death metal so I've come to a reverb=bad mindset. But if you think it will help then I will definitely give it a crack when I get the chance. Is it suitable for the whole kit or not for certain mics?