Pretty sure this is fairly standard practice for companies who are really keen to sign someone? The likes of Vai etc get gear thrown at them every day of the week for their endorsements. In 2020 it's the youtube gang I guess.
Kiesel --- Never Again!
- Thread starter MetalHead40
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Pretty sure this is fairly standard practice for companies who are really keen to sign someone? The likes of Vai etc get gear thrown at them every day of the week for their endorsements. In 2020 it's the youtube gang I guess.
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2020? The youtube gang is already getting free stuff for several years..
My wife watches youtube vids about make up and stuff. You have no idea how many make up those youtubers get sent every week!
Same with clothing, shoes, home decoration, baby stuff,...
Carl Kolchak
Last of the famous international playboys
People have been saying this ever since Jeff took over and the horror stories began, and their popularity has nothing but skyrocketed. Anyone these days that knows more than one thing about guitars probably knows about Kiesel. Sad, because I hate Jeff, and I am so happy I own an instrument that says "Carvin" instead of "Kiesel".
Also, is it just me or is Jeff Kiesel kinda like the Joe Exotic of guitars...?
What's different here is that you have this cringe-inducing viral "flex" vid that everyone's going to be meme'ing mercilessly off of now. But don't get me wrong, I don't think this is going to sink Kiesel in the short term. The long term though... This is where Jeff's narcissicide will be Kiesel's eventual undoing, at least as I see it. How so? Well as Jeff clearly equates his sales numbers as an expression of personal "virility" it should go without saying then that he'll have to keep pumping those guitars out in ever-increasing numbers in order to keep his id monster well fed. The long term consequences of this will be 1) more flawed guitars getting out, as his workers struggle to get them out on time, and 2) the market will get flooded, which will force price drops, which will then force more corner-cutting, etc.
I bought my Kiesel used, because I literally found one used on Reverb that was spec'd out to close to 95% of what I would've ordered myself if I were buying new, but at a $400 discount. So that's +/- 1.6K Jeff never got from me. So what you say? Jeff probably blows that on a single dinner at NAMM. True, but as that flex vid goes viral it could very well influence enough people who were otherwise contemplating a buy from him to think twice about it and go instead with a company who'll stand behind their guitars 100%.
Folks, in general, have a high tolerance for bullshit when they're getting something out of it.
Folks will work a shitty job because the money is good, or stay in an awful relationship because the sex is good, or eat garbage because it's delicious. Folks will get guitars from Kiesel because they're good guitars for a good price with good options.
The world keeps spinning.
Folks will work a shitty job because the money is good, or stay in an awful relationship because the sex is good, or eat garbage because it's delicious. Folks will get guitars from Kiesel because they're good guitars for a good price with good options.
The world keeps spinning.
There's some bizarre stuff in this thread, this is an example of a slightly unhealthy overthinking of things.
Jake
GAS Master
I can confirm this is one of their practices from friends of mine who were "endorsed"Yeah if anything that's a positive thing. Doesn't Kiesel make endorsed people return the guitars if the endorsement falls throughlike what happened to Joss Allen?
lewis
Well-Known Member
wheres the complete story on that?Yeah if anything that's a positive thing. Doesn't Kiesel make endorsed people return the guitars if the endorsement falls through
Is it on his youtube channel?
I would love to check out the ins and outs on it ending and them demanding all the guitars back. Haha
Albake21
Ibanez Nerd
This is 100% true, they do demand the guitars back if you do not end up staying with them. There have been multiple accounts of this, but most aren't public about it for obvious reasons. I know Robby from The Contortionist tried Kiesel for a bit and Cam told me he had to ship the guitar back when he stayed with Ibanez.
Lorcan Ward
7slinger
Well to be fair there was that non endorsed artist who even refused to give back a loaner guitar.
But who's Carole?
what do you expect them to do? “We’d like you to endorse our brand. We’ll send you a few basses. If you don’t like them, you’re obligated to send them back, ASAP.” yeah dude, not how it works.
spudmunkey
Well-Known Member
Yeah if anything that's a positive thing. Doesn't Kiesel make endorsed people return the guitars if the endorsement falls through
Joss signed a contract to exclusively play Kiesel. Joss decided he wanted to break the contract and admitted that it was a mistake since he has a gear review channel. Kiesel bought back the guitars that Joss purchased at his endorsed-artist discount.
Edika
Well-Known Member
But what if he wanted to keep them? Was there a clause in the contract that forced him to pay the full price if he left the endorsement or had to sell them back to Kiesel? Or was it avoid the mighty Jeff use his minions to pester him on his YouTube channel? Because I'm sure Jeff would spin it like Joss stole the guitars if he kept them.
spudmunkey
Well-Known Member
Amusingly that was exactly the conversation 50 pages ago in the Carvin/Kiesel thread, and then Joss explained what happened, and most everybody was like, "Oh...he backed out of the contract? And of course kiesel wouldn't want people to join for a couple of months to get discounted guitars then jump ship... Seems reasonable to me."
Edika
Well-Known Member
Well if it was for such a short period of time maybe there's some validity to that statement. However other brands do the same thing right? Depending on the level of endorsement they usually provide discounted instruments. I'm not sure if there's a specific time clause to the endorsement contract and what would be the penalties for breaking a contract but I don't think they would ask the guitars back or buy them back to avoid people getting endorsements to get discounted guitars.
And discussing that argument I believe any guitarist starting to play guitar dreams of getting endorsed by brands and consider those as privileges not something they're entitled too. I don't think anyone would use it as a ploy to get discounted guitars, as news like that travel really fast and could damage someone's reputation in the industry, so to me this sounds like a stupid argument. Unless Kiesel is throwing endorsements to any chump that can hold a guitar, if so I'd like heavily discounted guitars please and I'll stay with them forever lol!
Man when Jeff came aboard and had all these ideas of new models more ERG's and expanding the brand I was really excited. But boy what a repulsive person he turned out to be.
And discussing that argument I believe any guitarist starting to play guitar dreams of getting endorsed by brands and consider those as privileges not something they're entitled too. I don't think anyone would use it as a ploy to get discounted guitars, as news like that travel really fast and could damage someone's reputation in the industry, so to me this sounds like a stupid argument. Unless Kiesel is throwing endorsements to any chump that can hold a guitar, if so I'd like heavily discounted guitars please and I'll stay with them forever lol!
Man when Jeff came aboard and had all these ideas of new models more ERG's and expanding the brand I was really excited. But boy what a repulsive person he turned out to be.
G_3_3_k_
Probably diddling an Oni
Just watched the video. If I were an artist, I would be bailing at this point. I wouldn't want my name associated with someone that isn't willing to take care of the people whose money they subsist off of. Its certainly a flex. And its undeniably misguided. You'd never catch John Suhr, or Tom Anderson, or Sterling Ball treating a customer like that. They all bend over backwards for customers. John Suhr fired his head CS guy for shit like this. Granted, it was the guy's treatment of an artist that got him fired. Still. If your customers can't trust you and you continuously do things to cause increased mistrust, you're going to alienate all of your patronage. I lost interest when Jeff started ranting about being the best built stuff out there. I'd played Suhr, Anderson, Alembic, Ormsby, BFRs, and Conklins at that point. It's literally untrue. Might be the best option for someone based on specs. But, certainly not the best quality instruments. I'll pick a company with amazing customer service and some QC issues, over a company with less QC issues and shit customer service any day of the week. The other builders I mentioned have less QC issues that I know of and always err on the side of the customer to my knowledge. Kiesel has BOTH of the mentioned brand issues. I won't give them any of my cash again.
lewis
Well-Known Member
spudmunkey
Well-Known Member
Can't deny anything in the video, but one thing: the timeline of the "we're all dealing with the virus" etc etc...that didn't happen *after* the customer said his brother died, that was after the video clip.
Most of the other complaints laid out in the video are legitimate, but that claim by the video's creator was inaccurate.
One other is a little cloudy, if i remember right: the first scenario that was talked about, with the green quilted top. That was from a "pick your top" session. The top was visible on video, and the customer purchased it from said video. So that one's a little less cut-and-dry than the video lets on.
Most of the other complaints laid out in the video are legitimate, but that claim by the video's creator was inaccurate.
One other is a little cloudy, if i remember right: the first scenario that was talked about, with the green quilted top. That was from a "pick your top" session. The top was visible on video, and the customer purchased it from said video. So that one's a little less cut-and-dry than the video lets on.
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