8 String problem - F# flutters alot in pitch

[Frankers]

I just got my first 8 string this monday (11 sep) and it's a Schecter Hellraiser Hybrid C-8 with a straight 28" scale.
I have alot of attack in my picking hand and like heavier string gauges. The stock strings were alittle loose for my taste but were alright so i never noticed any issues with pitch flutter since i just figured the strings were too loose for my taste.

I changes the strings the same day to 10, 13,18, 30, 44, 56, 72, 90 and the first 7 strings are stables and hold pitch really well but the low 90 in F# has a weird problem with alot of fluttering pitch, almost like a fast vibrato effect. The note is going sharp and flat very rapidly, like 4-8 times per second. Since i'm very familiar with heavy strings and high tension i always bend the lower strings over the nut and bridge saddle after a restring so the brake angle from the sabble to the nut is flat/straight and not bent and causing problems.

I've tried everything i can think of to fixe the issue but nothing helps. I've raised and lowered the strings, raised and lowered the pickups induvidually to see if the neck pickup was affecting the F# string, intonated the strings, i'm using a fretwrap above the nut. I've tried bending the string some more, tried dropping the note to E and even tuned it upp to a G but nothing makes it better. This makes the guitar not suitable for recording of live use making the guitar a deal breaker for me.

Is a 90 just simply too heavy and will always cause this kind of problem?

Any thoughts, tips or prayers?

​

 

[Crungy]

Have you tried taking the string off and re-mounting it? Maybe it's a little twisted in the nut and saddle.

If that doesn't work try using a smaller string and see what happens.

 

[c7spheres]

Try what @Crungy said while also checking your 'witness points' If the problem is stll there it's probably the string. Sometimes you can get duds which have poor tensile strength in some part of the string. Sometimes that's because over/improper stretching or bad manufacturing. If a new string still does it it could also be the saddle or nut or even tuning peg isn't accepting it or seating the string well enough causing it to shift a micro amount. Maybe check that first. A lot of saddles won't accept something as large as a 90 properly.

 

[Crungy]

Do any string manufacturers make tapered guitar strings like tapered bass strings? That would help at the saddle if that is causing issues.

 

[c7spheres]

Do any string manufacturers make tapered guitar strings like tapered bass strings? That would help at the saddle if that is causing issues.

Neaver head of them for electric but that's a great idea.

 

[Crungy]

Seems like a no brainer for super heavy low F# strings.

For those unaware of what I'm talking about:

 

[CanserDYI]

.090 at 28 inches tuned to F# is quite heavy IMHO, don't think that's the issue but I'd just suggest trying to het used to picking lighter and use lighter strings, you'll be happier with your tone and your wallet when you're able to buy off the shelf string packs.

 

[c7spheres]

I just realized my GHS 74 and 70 Boomers have a taper at the tuning peg end, which is great for no ball end style if needed like on a Floyd but it's so thin I wouldn't use it. I can't even use it on the tuning peg side because it's to long for a 25.5 scale. Had to drill out the peg anyways. Maybe it'd work good for long scale length but only at the tuning peg end. It'd be to thin it seems for bridge end.

 

[UnstableinLINY]

You're gonna have to take it easy on the lowest string. It's gonna go sharp at the attack if you pick hard on that string.

If it's fluctuating rapidly, I never had that issue. I use a .080 max on the lowest string at E1 on a 27" straight scale and it's a little squishy so I have to not pick super hard and watch my left hand as well to make sure I'm not pressing too hard.

Can you capture video of it straight into just a tuner to show the effect? The normal behavior should be sharp on attack (depending on how hard you pick), normal on ring out, maybe a little flat on end of a long ring out. But oscillating rapidly is strange to me.

 

[CM_X5]

Maybe try a new string, make sure it fits the nut slot as that could cause at least some tuning instability.

 

[gh0styboi]

I can't imagine tuning my 28" baritone to F# with a freaking .90. Way too much tension, imo. I use a .90 for E1/Drop D an octave down on my 28" scale...

As for the problem itself, definitely try a new string first. It's not super common, but there are duds in a pack sometimes. For me, I've usually found them on the first three strings and not the lowest ones, but it's not impossible. Beyond that, look at the nut. I'm not aware of any guitar that comes stock with nut filed to take a .90 string.

An easy way to quickly see if your nut slot is filed deep/wide enough is to fret the string in question at the third fret and look at the space between the top of the first fret and the bottom of the string. If it's cut correctly, there should be just barely any space there - only a slight amount to tap the string against the fret.

 

[Crungy]

Thankfully it's not that common, but it happens. I've had a couple dud bass guitar strings that were just dead or have a chorus-y sound to them.

 

[Daevasmodeus]

I've found this chorus-y issue to be pretty common among D'Addario NYXL and Ernie Ball strings and I think it originates with not having good seating in the saddle or nut with good break angle. I only use 68's for F# on 27 scale and they are a lot more malleable for pre-bending them over the saddle or nut than a 90. Sometimes bending it fixes the issue, and sometimes they just need a lot of stretching. I've only had probably 1 string that was unfixable via these 2 methods. I also use a Floyd and locking nut so I imagine the issue could be much more pronounced on a regular nut and saddle.

I pick really hard too, so I use lighter picks to dampen the force I'm exerting on the strings and can use much lighter strings than I would otherwise. This is important with 8-Strings because I've found that the tone on anything heavier than a 70 sounds terrible in any context outside of single open notes. Any typical chugging palm mutes or properly intonated power chords you are probably familiar with on the upper 7 strings do not sound good on heavier gauges.

 

[ikarus]

Can you capture video of it straight into just a tuner to show the effect? The normal behavior should be sharp on attack (depending on how hard you pick), normal on ring out, maybe a little flat on end of a long ring out. But oscillating rapidly is strange to me.

How do you guys tune a guitar like that? Tune to pitch on the attack or the ring out? or something in between?

 

[Daevasmodeus]

How do you guys tune a guitar like that? Tune to pitch on the attack or the ring out? or something in between?

I tune to attack by repeatedly playing open notes at or around the average picking strength I'm going to use on the particular string. Knowing that the note will go sharp the harder you play it, you get closer to "in between" by picking softer. The threshold at which you can finetune this on a larger low tuned string like an F# on an 8-string is very wide and subjective. I don't see a point to tuning to ring out in any context outside of using an e-bow or something.

For this "chorus-y" problem in particular, my experience is that it's not pitch oscillation in the fundamental frequency but only in subtle overtones and I don't think the tuner sees it really.

 

[GunpointMetal]

Kalium makes large guitar strings that are tapered at both ends. If if its going above AND below pitch I think your string is FUBAR or you've got a loose piece of hardware somewhere in there.

 

[Gtan7]

I have 2 multiscales go to 28" and use .85s... haven't experienced this

make sure you're saddle's 2 height screws are sitting same height and flat on the base (look at screw bottoms and make sure they weren't shortened with a hacksaw, i've seen amateur luthiery like this like on strats). If you can mod (increase )the breakover angle at saddle, that might help

Also fold the string over the saddle like bass players always do, making solid contact

 

[Grindspine]

One weird thing with super thick strings is that the metallic mass can get weird in the magnetic field of the pickups if the pickups are too close.

For the weird oscillation you mentioned, try moving the pickups further from the strings to see if it decreases. It is a quick test to see if that's the problem. Other than pickup height, how the string is seating in the nut would be the other thing I'd want to check in that situation.

 

[bostjan]

0.090" is too thick. The thicker the string, the less linear the overtones will be, because the string is no longer realistically modeled as an infinitescimally thin wire, but rather as a vibrating thin cylinder.

If you go up in scale length, it gets a little better, but the string will feel floppier due to lack if stiffness instead of tension. Still, the tuning issue should resolve.

If you cannot adjust the scale length, you'll have to chose from a number of imperfect options:

1. Go down in thickness and use gentler pick attack. This will resolve the issue, but you don't get to play naturally.
2. Go down in thickness and use your natural pick attack. This won't resolve the issue, but gives a bwow rather than a bwong sound, which is generally considered better.
3. Tune higher.
4. Try better strings. Might not help much, but it might be enough just to improve the tonal quality through consustency rather than specification.
5. Just embrace the shit tone of modern 8 strings like most players do. This resolves nothing, but the audience doesn't care anyway.

 

[luca9583]

@Frankers can we hear a DI clip of the fluttering string?