A Perfect Circle - Eat The Elephant

[Sogradde]

No...you probably did not grow out of APC but rather their music has gotten really lame
and nowhere near what they used to be. It

I suppose you're right. I'm just a little disappointed after hearing the rest of the album. The second half is very "same-y" and doesn't sound very inspiring. The first half is more interesting but the lyrics don't really touch me. Can't help it but I keep comparing stuff like The Noose, which describes a very complex situation (which is also my favourite APC song of all times btw) to songs like Disillusioned with the message of "put your smartphone down and be spiritual, durr!".
Very disillusioning. Pun intended.

 

[Xaios]

Maynard's music is basically Nickleback for mopey teenage nihilists who think they can "see the matrix" because they're so self-aware and above it all. There, I said it.

EDIT: Not universally, I should clarify. Wings/10,000 Days, clearly being a far more personal song than most of Tool's/APC's output, does strike me as genuinely sincere.

 

[ArtDecade]

Maynard's music is basically Nickleback for mopey teenage nihilists who think they can "see the matrix" because they're so self-aware and above it all. There, I said it.

I've been saying that forever. Heck, I remember saying that here and getting a crap ton of red bars in my reputation. Wankers.

 

[MickD7]

This album is the elephant in the room that many wont accept as being on of the most boring and over rated releases of the year.

I have always been a fan of Tool and APC but if this output from Maynard is anything to go by then I’m hesitant to say the least about the next cycle of music from Tool. I’ve accepted that now, it was a hard pill to swallow at first but it’s the truth. Maynard has got to Lennon levels of fan clubs they will soak up everything and anything and declare it gospel. And Tool have gone to the Beatles level where everything they do is amazing because “you just don’t get it man because you haven’t experienced it yet, the journey man just take some shrooms and you will get it” or your wrong.

They could put together a 12 song album that’s snippets of recycled riffs with ramblings of MDMA fueled woke fans whispering about a 3 second bit of feedback at a live show on a Thursday night in the spring of 2011 and how if you play it backwards put it into a LFO six delay pedals and sync it up up it’s actually part for of the Matrix and gives you a secret code about the truth behind the moon landing and how much you need to wake up and wash your third eye clean of the chemicals that are drawing your aura into the chasm.

Yeah.... we will see but don’t hold your breath. Christ the last album came out when I met a girl at a party over our mutual discussion of music, flash forward to 2018 and we are married, have a house being built both have completed degrees at uni with successful careersand have a kid on the way. And some are holding their breath for the next album.

2018 held a stack of other far superior releases. This was just wasn’t one of them

 

[BlackMastodon]

This album is the elephant in the room that many wont accept as being on of the most boring and over rated releases of the year.

I have always been a fan of Tool and APC but if this output from Maynard is anything to go by then I’m hesitant to say the least about the next cycle of music from Tool. I’ve accepted that now, it was a hard pill to swallow at first but it’s the truth. Maynard has got to Lennon levels of fan clubs they will soak up everything and anything and declare it gospel. And Tool have gone to the Beatles level where everything they do is amazing because “you just don’t get it man because you haven’t experienced it yet, the journey man just take some shrooms and you will get it” or your wrong.

They could put together a 12 song album that’s snippets of recycled riffs with ramblings of MDMA fueled woke fans whispering about a 3 second bit of feedback at a live show on a Thursday night in the spring of 2011 and how if you play it backwards put it into a LFO six delay pedals and sync it up up it’s actually part for of the Matrix and gives you a secret code about the truth behind the moon landing and how much you need to wake up and wash your third eye clean of the chemicals that are drawing your aura into the chasm.

Yeah.... we will see but don’t hold your breath. Christ the last album came out when I met a girl at a party over our mutual discussion of music, flash forward to 2018 and we are married, have a house being built both have completed degrees at uni with successful careersand have a kid on the way. And some are holding their breath for the next album.

2018 held a stack of other far superior releases. This was just wasn’t one of them

Gotta say that was a masterful rant.

Isn't the creative process left to Billy and the rest of Tool for Maynard's bands though? I've heard in interviews, specifically talking about Tool, that Maynard only does lyrics and vocal melodies but the rest of the music is left to the band. And from my understanding APC is Billy Howerdell's baby, with Maynard coming in after to do vocals and lyrics again.

Either way, I really like Billy's style of playing/writing but it isnt the same caliber as the earlier stuff he wrote for them. And yeah, one thing I noticed on the first listen was that Maynard kept whining about putting our phones down and it didn't seem original or thought provoking at all, but those are the songs I skip on it.

 

[MickD7]

Gotta say that was a masterful rant.

Isn't the creative process left to Billy and the rest of Tool for Maynard's bands though? I've heard in interviews, specifically talking about Tool, that Maynard only does lyrics and vocal melodies but the rest of the music is left to the band. And from my understanding APC is Billy Howerdell's baby, with Maynard coming in after to do vocals and lyrics again.

Either way, I really like Billy's style of playing/writing but it isnt the same caliber as the earlier stuff he wrote for them. And yeah, one thing I noticed on the first listen was that Maynard kept whining about putting our phones down and it didn't seem original or thought provoking at all, but those are the songs I skip on it.

It probably is a rant and I won’t deny that and being pessimistic about it is probably the worst thing to do. Maybe I’m just fatigued by the whole thing, calling it quits on your own band because all the ambition from other members was to sound as close to Tool as possible will probably drive you to that.

But still I just feel like that this album was more of a sleepwalking process and sort of had a “Well we better do that album, or nobody will care anymore quick get Maynard in before he disappears making wine/Tool or Puscifer music again” thing.

The original release of By and Down that they did for the greatest hits thing had a lot more energy and the album version removed that energy completely which kind of blows.

I do dig Billy and I know they are separate bands but the two key elements linking of those bands are the vocalist. I’m hoping maybe that Maynard hasn’t lost that charm, I don’t think any band writes consistent music and albums so here’s hoping that both go back in swinging eventually.

 

[BlackMastodon]

Oh I totally think your rant was justified, there's definitely a lot of putting Tool and Maynard on a pedestal around the metal community. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinions and I don't think you're wrong.

Actually I agree with you completely on the By and Down comment, when I heard it on EtE I was really confused why they slowed it down by maybe 10%. Definitely seemed to sap the life and energy out of it like you said. I also really loved that song since they released it a couple years ago for the best of album, just a strange move to slightly change it and put it on this album as an inferior version.

 

[fps]

I love a lot of different music, so will never have an issue with a band changing style if the tunes are good, but one of the key things a band should remember is what it does best, and work within those parameters. Mer De Noms is the best thing APC has done by such a country mile that it's very difficult for me to imagine getting excited by another release now. I loved the opener, and bits of some other tracks, but truly the songs overall made it all feel like a side project.

Maynard's been doing side projects so long I wonder if he's got it in him to do something that feels main project again, whether that's Tool, APC or something else. I prefer Puscifer at this point for sure, APC went stale a long time ago.

 

[binz]

Honestly I'm very surprised by the amount of rant against this album, Maynard and his music in general. Maybe its me being 25 and finding 10.000 days was the best tool release, a clash of generations so to say or the 'the first album was the best and everything after sucked' attitude. I mean I get people disliking the sound, which naturally changes over periods of decades, but Nickleback comparison? What is lazy / so horribly unoriginal about critisizing aspects of our digitalized modern societies for example?

Concerning the album 'Eat the Elephant' in particular, I was expecting rants about the cover, which is horrible imho, but the music? The Doomed, Disiluusioned and TalkTalkTalk are excellent songs both musically and lyrically in my eyes. My personal favorite is By and down the river, which is actually a warmed-up old song. Would the criticism have been different if it wasnt APC / Maynard Keenan?

Generally, I feel a lot of 'hate' for the see-the-matrix-type should be directed towards (parts of) the fans and not the band itself. I am also annoyed by that, but looking at contemporary interviews I don't find the band propagating much of that themselves. I also don't perceive Maynard Keenan to be full of himself, but feel that people having this kind of cult level / fanbases get judged differently. I mean, I'd also rather have him drugged up as in Undertow times having musical and lyrcal epiphanies and making "more true music"(? I guess thats kind of the crtizism on here), but if the man wants to make freaking wine now, so be it, he doesnt owe me or anyone anything.

 

[fps]

This album is the elephant in the room that many wont accept as being on of the most boring and over rated releases of the year.

I have always been a fan of Tool and APC but if this output from Maynard is anything to go by then I’m hesitant to say the least about the next cycle of music from Tool. I’ve accepted that now, it was a hard pill to swallow at first but it’s the truth. Maynard has got to Lennon levels of fan clubs they will soak up everything and anything and declare it gospel. And Tool have gone to the Beatles level where everything they do is amazing because “you just don’t get it man because you haven’t experienced it yet, the journey man just take some shrooms and you will get it” or your wrong.

They could put together a 12 song album that’s snippets of recycled riffs with ramblings of MDMA fueled woke fans whispering about a 3 second bit of feedback at a live show on a Thursday night in the spring of 2011 and how if you play it backwards put it into a LFO six delay pedals and sync it up up it’s actually part for of the Matrix and gives you a secret code about the truth behind the moon landing and how much you need to wake up and wash your third eye clean of the chemicals that are drawing your aura into the chasm.

Yeah.... we will see but don’t hold your breath. Christ the last album came out when I met a girl at a party over our mutual discussion of music, flash forward to 2018 and we are married, have a house being built both have completed degrees at uni with successful careersand have a kid on the way. And some are holding their breath for the next album.

2018 held a stack of other far superior releases. This was just wasn’t one of them

When the last album was released, I hadn't met my girlfriend. Fast forward 12 years and we have moved cities, bought a place and just got married. It is ridiculous.

 

[fps]

Honestly I'm very surprised by the amount of rant against this album, Maynard and his music in general. Maybe its me being 25 and finding 10.000 days was the best tool release, a clash of generations so to say or the 'the first album was the best and everything after sucked' attitude. I mean I get people disliking the sound, which naturally changes over periods of decades, but Nickleback comparison? What is lazy / so horribly unoriginal about critisizing aspects of our digitalized modern societies for example?

Concerning the album 'Eat the Elephant' in particular, I was expecting rants about the cover, which is horrible imho, but the music? The Doomed, Disiluusioned and TalkTalkTalk are excellent songs both musically and lyrically in my eyes. My personal favorite is By and down the river, which is actually a warmed-up old song. Would the criticism have been different if it wasnt APC / Maynard Keenan?

Generally, I feel a lot of 'hate' for the see-the-matrix-type should be directed towards (parts of) the fans and not the band itself. I am also annoyed by that, but looking at contemporary interviews I don't find the band propagating much of that themselves. I also don't perceive Maynard Keenan to be full of himself, but feel that people having this kind of cult level / fanbases get judged differently. I mean, I'd also rather have him drugged up as in Undertow times having musical and lyrcal epiphanies and making "more true music"(? I guess thats kind of the crtizism on here), but if the man wants to make freaking wine now, so be it, he doesnt owe me or anyone anything.

I agree the Nickelback comparisons are ridiculous, and it sounds like a lot of Tool fans are insufferable. Neither of these things are Maynard's fault.

But I don't recognise The Doomed as an excellent song. It's two separate bits strung together with a really repetitive guitar bit at the end, and never goes anywhere. Mer De Noms IS APC's best album, it doesn't always happen, sure didn't happen with Tool, but that album is magic, whereas the second one is half an album, and this one was seriously a little dull at points. The criticism would have been different if it wasn't Maynard because without the strength of being attached to Maynard, and his wonderful voice, it wouldn't be getting any real attention because it's not strong enough, with the exception of the opener, Disillusioned, which is beautiful as long as you ignore the tone of the lyrics, and Talk Talk, which really flows.

 

[MickD7]

Honestly I'm very surprised by the amount of rant against this album, Maynard and his music in general. Maybe its me being 25 and finding 10.000 days was the best tool release, a clash of generations so to say or the 'the first album was the best and everything after sucked' attitude. I mean I get people disliking the sound, which naturally changes over periods of decades, but Nickleback comparison? What is lazy / so horribly unoriginal about critisizing aspects of our digitalized modern societies for example?

Concerning the album 'Eat the Elephant' in particular, I was expecting rants about the cover, which is horrible imho, but the music? The Doomed, Disiluusioned and TalkTalkTalk are excellent songs both musically and lyrically in my eyes. My personal favorite is By and down the river, which is actually a warmed-up old song. Would the criticism have been different if it wasnt APC / Maynard Keenan?

Generally, I feel a lot of 'hate' for the see-the-matrix-type should be directed towards (parts of) the fans and not the band itself. I am also annoyed by that, but looking at contemporary interviews I don't find the band propagating much of that themselves. I also don't perceive Maynard Keenan to be full of himself, but feel that people having this kind of cult level / fanbases get judged differently. I mean, I'd also rather have him drugged up as in Undertow times having musical and lyrcal epiphanies and making "more true music"(? I guess thats kind of the crtizism on here), but if the man wants to make freaking wine now, so be it, he doesnt owe me or anyone anything.

I was 16 when 10,000 days came out. It’s still one of my favourite releases it’s just a comparison of a high end escort vs a $3 crack head hooker difference with this APC album.

I don’t dispute that they are immensely talented musicians but you can dispute the god tier level that Keenan is on that gives Tool,APC fans that same Lennon level fan club thing though

 

[Hellbound]

Ya know the whole saying "You can't judge a book or album by it's cover" saying well in my experience...I have found some of my favorite albums and artists all because I chose to buy a cd with the awesome looking artwork. "SepticFlesh" "Dimmu Borgir" "Old Man's Child" "Arch Enemy" "Meshuggah" "Sybreed" "Mnemic"and sooooo many more...the only way I got into these bands was because at a local FYE album store near me, I would go over to the metal section and most of the time pick the cooler looking cd cover artwork and make my purchase decision on that alone...just saying in many cases (cd cases get it?)lol...the artwork can show how much effort went into production and that this is not your ordinary lousy sounding band.
The cover artwork for the new APC album looks like complete shite...I have listened to the whole album at least 3 times now...the music matches their album artwork.

I am not saying this to always be true I have found some amazing albums that have horrible artwork...none come to mind at the moment as these would not be metal related albums...but I am so grateful to myself for choosing to judge by the album artwork alone...otherwise I may have never discovered 2 of my favorite metal artists ever "SepticFlesh" "Dimmu Borgir"...I downloaded their song "counsel of wolves and snakes" and love that song...the rest of the album is just meh...the cover art is also meh.

 

[binz]

I don't know, I would strongly disagree with your album artwork correlates with musical quality hypothesis just by looking at architects' and periphery's albums who basically are just their logo with some alternation, so basically zero effort. You could reverse the argument and say that bands that have shit / boring / lazy album covers are just more concerned with the music itself.

Even though eat the elephant really stands out, the other album covers of apc weren't particularly great either. I mean wtf is up with the thirteenth step album 'artwork'?

Edit: or maybe put it in other words. Though sometimes good artwork implies good music the reverse is in my experience rather rare.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

horribly boring album compared to mer de noms or emagine

 

[BlackMastodon]

horribly boring album compared to mer de noms or emagine

Funny you mention Emotive, but I never bothered with that one. When I found out it was almost all cover songs I skipped it, aside from the original ones from it. I actually didn't pick up Mer de Noms until a few years ago but had Thirteenth Step for a long time before that. I think Mer de Noms is definitely their strongest but TS is a very close second, the songs that are killer on that album just really stand out. And to be fair I listened to The Nurse who Loved Me once and deleted it forever and never bothered again, so I always forget it's on there.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

Funny you mention Emotive, but I never bothered with that one. When I found out it was almost all cover songs I skipped it, aside from the original ones from it. I actually didn't pick up Mer de Noms until a few years ago but had Thirteenth Step for a long time before that. I think Mer de Noms is definitely their strongest but TS is a very close second, the songs that are killer on that album just really stand out. And to be fair I listened to The Nurse who Loved Me once and deleted it forever and never bothered again, so I always forget it's on there.

emotive has some great arrangements on it, like the cover of imagine. I like how they gave a song about peace and harmony a sinister kind of feel