Amp distortion VS pedal distortion

[Constructivist]

Just to make it clear, I'm here with the hope to be educated.
Here is my setup: guitar-->maxon od808X-->laney ironheart studio. This is how I get the best possible distortion out of my amp. It is harmonically rich and very very responsive and dynamic to my playing.

In the same setup I have tried a variety of distortion pedals. I've had the following ones: Mesa throttle box, Seymour Duncan Palladium and Wampler Dracarys. I've tried all pedals both in the front and in the loop of the amp. I've tried them in the clean channel with both low and high amp volume and in the crunch channel with a tiny bit of gain from the amp. I've fiddled with both pedal and amp eq settings. I've even tried the classic overdrive into distortion into clean amp trick.

So my problem and question is this. Even though these are supposed to be expensive high end distortion pedals the sound I get from them is always muddy and they feel somewhat slow to my playing. Do I use them wrong or I should never expect a distortion pedal to sound as good as a valve amp?

Thank ya all for sharing your wisdom

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

Big bucks doesn't always mean big tone. There's some pedals that sound like... Pedals. Otoh you have guys like AMT and Friedman that can make extremely amp like pedals.

 

[Constructivist]

I really like the sound of the Revv G3. so im wondering whether it makes sense to invest in it. AMT? Any recommendations?

 

[Charlie Foxtrot 3rd]

I really like the sound of the Revv G3. so im wondering whether it makes sense to invest in it. AMT? Any recommendations?

I was having a similar issue.

I came across a the Revv G3 online as one does these days.

I procrastinated for a while due to the price but was pleased when I got it and dialed it in.
lots of tonal options but doesn’t do well with my Blackstar HT100, but that amp doesn’t really need a distortion pedal. But into the clean channel of my Orange Rockerverb mkiii it’s absolutely gigantic. I liked it so much I was moved to write Revv and email and tell them it’s the tits. Im not sure how it would go with your rig though.

 

[SubsonicDoom99]

My personal opinion/experience with distortion pedals is that I prefer them into much cleaner amps and more basic power-amp style setups, such as using something like the Throttle Box or Palladium with an amp like the PowerStage 170 or the Orange Pedal Baby. I think those kind of gain-stage/pre-amp type pedals just perform better in those conditions. When I'm playing into a tube amp with a high-gain pre-amp already built in, I almost only ever use a good overdrive pedal with it and that's it. I've used the Revv G3 through the PowerStage 170 and really liked it, but don't have any experience putting it through the front or in the loop of a high-gain tube head. Into the clean channel of an amp like the Rockerverb like Charlie mentioned above I could see working pretty well though. I've also used the Palladium into a clean power amp and gotten great results, I didn't find it muddy or slow. But does it respond just like a high-gain tube amp? It's definitely a different kind of beast, it's not going to respond in the same way as a distortion pedal will in most cases.

 

[efiltsohg]

I don't find any preamp pedals sound real or good so I stick to distortion pedals that don't try to sound like an amp... Rat, vintage DODs, HM2, fuzzes, anything for ugly niche tones. Other than that it's boosted tube amp gain all the way

 

[TedEH]

Even though these are supposed to be expensive high end distortion pedals the sound I get from them is always muddy and they feel somewhat slow to my playing. Do I use them wrong or I should never expect a distortion pedal to sound as good as a valve amp?

My impression has always been the other way around -> Any pedal I've tried has been "fast" and thin to the point of being kinda sterile. Switching to tube amps at one point came with a readjustment period because of the response being slower, more dynamic, not quite saturated in the same way, etc.

I'm sure that both pedals and amps at this point are capable of a variety of tones/feels/etc. I don't think it's useful anymore to think "pedal = bad, amp = good" in terms of gain. Sounds like you want to spend a bunch of time with as wide a variety of gear as you can get away with to find out what you like.

 

[sleewell]

imo pedals are good for boosting an amp but i would not rely on them for my main dirty tone.

 

[budda]

imo pedals are good for boosting an amp but i would not rely on them for my main dirty tone.

I did, and everyone thought it was my amp

 

[Bearitone]

I really like the sound of the Revv G3. so im wondering whether it makes sense to invest in it. AMT? Any recommendations?

AMT makes bitchin preamp pedals. Get them if you plan on running straight into a poweramp.

If your just going to run into the front end of an amp it’s a waste of money imo.

The G3 is advertised as a distortion pedal. There’s lots of debate but, when i see the word “distortion” it usually means the pedal was designed to run into a clean channel.

There are exceptions but, that’s what they are; exceptions.

To me distortion pedals always sound like toys compared to quality preamps run into a poweramp but, maybe that’s just the ones I’ve tried.

Side note: I’ve heard that the simpler the signal chain of a clean amp, the better a distortion pedal will sound. Hence the popularity of simple “no-master-volume” amps as “pedal platforms”. I have no actual experience in this field though.

 

[Zoobiedood]

I think the muddy sound comes from incorrect gain staging. Lessen the distortion on either the amp or the pedal, and make up for it with the other. The sound cleans up that way. Another option is use a high-gain distortion pedal like the Palladium into a clean channel. That sound is certainly not muddy.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I may use them for lead settings if needed, but ideally, I want to get as much out of the amp that I can before “needing” to use a pedal. Ironically, the STL Will Pitney does this quite well in comparison to my experience in playing through actual Bonner Uberschalls and Diezel VH4’s, so I use the plugins pedal only for leads to tighten up a bit and cut some lows, not for adding more disto or gain.

 

[Wolfhorsky]

While i love my amp’s dirty channel (PRS MT15), I’ve chosen to use my fav BE-OD into the clean channel on my gigs. The dirty channel is overbearingly pushing the air in my band’s scenario. BE-OD gives me more control and is tighter. When You want to push some serious air and do the damage to the audience, boosted amp’s dirty channel would be my first choice. If You want to blend well with the bigger band (second guitar, keyboard) You should consider good distortion pedal.
So Yes - there are some differences in dynamics and freq response. I like it both ways.
Another benefit of the approach, utylizing dist/preamp pedals into the clean amp, is very simple setup. One cable into pedalboard with everything and the second one into the clean amp.

 

[Alex79]

I've never managed to get distortion or fuzz pedals to sound "right", I just suck at them somehow. I've sold them all and I will not buy any more distortion or fuzz pedals; they're just not my thing.

I think it really might be a case that most of them are designed for very neutral sounding amps and I probably am drawn to amps that are not neutral sounding, but have distinct mid/treble responses, sometimes bordering on "harsh". The best results I had was arguably a cheap Boss pedal into a Fender champ amp.

 

[laxu]

My experience is that pedals can sound good, but lack some of the dynamics you get with amp gain. This purely when used as the sole source of overdrive. For boosting an amp you may enjoy some reduction in dynamic range anyway.

There really is no right or wrong here though, I've gotten great sounds both ways. The great thing about pedals is that there are a million of them out there to choose from and they don't cost as much as a new amp.

 

[Necky379]

My opinion on it is moderation and balance is the key to making them work. I’ve used many different models, expensive and cheap in different situations but always use the same approach. A little bit goes a long way. The MT-2 for example, even through a clean amp the distortion knob is never up high, it just isn’t necessary. Through a distortion channel I’d barely have the pedal distortion on, it’d be there just to change the character of the amps distortion. So through say a Peavey Butcher that produces JCM style overdrive a Metal Zone can add a bit of shit on top that makes it sound more death metal oriented while rolling off lows. Same thing with the eq section of that pedal. Unless you’re going for a niche sound as efiltsohg mentioned little eq adjustments sound better than extreme settings. I think these pedals and distortion pedals in general get a bad rap because people crank knobs and then give opinions based off of bad settings.
Another issue is that users don’t always understand how certain knobs actually work. A pedal may have a linear pot that reacts differently than an audio taper pot. A setting that may look extreme or odd may not be. Some pedals have controls that don’t seem like they do much of anything depending on what you’re playing through it. The DOD Boneshaker for example has a depth knob. If you’re playing a standard tuned guitar through greenbacks the knob seems useless. If the user was to pick up a baritone 7 and send everything through G12T’s or some EV’s they would see that the knob is functional. Run it through a bass rig with a 5 string and you’ll actually find that knob useful.
Lastly if you have an amp that already produces the same type of distortion that the pedal you’re trying use does it becomes useless for anything other than coloring your signal. Plenty of guys will run an HM-2 with a 5150 for example. There’s no benefit to relying entirely on the HM-2, the 5150 is already capable of nasty brootz on it’s own so the everything on max settings sound horrible. A better approach is to use it as a front end eq to get the low mid scoop, high mid saw and 80 hz pump while goosing the gain with the level knob instead of cranking the distortion knob.
That said I prefer amp distortion for what I play unless it’s a purpose build rig for doom, Swedish death etc, niche sounds as mentioned.

 

[sevenfoxes]

I've yet to come across any pedal that could match the warmth, tone, and feel from a solid tube amp. Take the 5150's green channel or the Archon's gain channel, for example. Pedals just aren't in the same league, imo.

That being said, there are some definitely impressive distortion pedals out there. I love the Empress Heavy, as well as the AMT stuff. I was running an Empress Heavy straight into the front of an Orange CR120, connected to a Genz Benz gflex cab. Crushing tone, and even amp like (minus a good lead tone). Still, just not the same thing. It's the dynamics, responsiveness, and warmth that make a solid tube amp superior.

I've done the whole pedal thing already, and will never go back.

 

[budda]

I've yet to come across any pedal that could match the warmth, tone, and feel from a solid tube amp. Take the 5150's green channel or the Archon's gain channel, for example. Pedals just aren't in the same league, imo.
It's the dynamics, responsiveness, and warmth that make a solid tube amp superior.

I've done the whole pedal thing already, and will never go back.

That's already been debunked though.

 

[sevenfoxes]

That's already been debunked though.

Doesn't matter what the science says when it comes to tone.

 

[budda]

Doesn't matter what the science says when it comes to tone.

Read that again .

I don't mean scientifically debunked in a static environment, I mean people use pedals and amp sims and audiences and fans think they're hearing "all tube signal paths".

What really matters is that you found the best tone for your music. But to say that other solutions don't match what tube amps can do is simply dumb. Signed, the guy who used to run a JCM800 2203 *and* a Fender twin.