Automating other instruments

[ItWillDo]

Hey all,

I've been in & out of the music scene a few times, and one of the main items I've experienced whilst in bands is that there are always other bandmates who are either less motivated to learn and improve or just generally less motivated in general to deliver a qualitative musical experience, whether this is live or on record.

Considering technology has come a long way from when I started 15 years ago, I've been exploring the idea of starting a band compromised of 3 people, being me (guitar), a drummer who I know well and is both very motivated as proficient and then a vocalist which to me usually also qualifies as a "face"/public figure for the band.

I've been thinking of starting a band with these 3 key roles and having both the 2nd guitar (as well as 3rd/4th layers & potentially keys) as well as bass fully digitally rendered in a live setting, or alternatively just having a recording of the latter quantised to the correct live BPM. The main advantage I see in this approach is that there is a large "quick-movers" advantage in the sense that I would be the only "blocking" factor when it comes to writing or recording and there also isn't a dependency on an additional 2 people in terms of live gigs.

The main downside I see is that there will be unavoidably less stage presence and that there's an additional dependency on a good live PA (which nowadays usually isn't a big issue) and in the worst case a "tech" guy which can keep an eye on the setup to make sure the setup keeps rolling.

I'm betting I could get the whole thing set up pretty quickly and stable using something like ReaLive (Reaper) and a few good plugins (which I mostly already own anyway).

Is there anyone here who already uses this approach (or knows of any bands who do this kind of stuff)?

 

[GunpointMetal]

This is a pretty common approach at this point. The best way to to do it so to have rendered audio of your non-live instruments (audio playback is way less work on a computer than sampler/synth via MIDI) and have at least your drummer playing to a click track. An audio interface that doubles as a mixer (X32/XR18 and many others) that have multiple outputs so you can send individual tracks to FOH or a stereo mix is the way to go, IMO. You don't even need anything special like ReaLive (a paid skin for Reaper) or Ableton, unless you're planning on improvising arrangements during your set. I use Repear and the region playlist for my bands. I would include a decent small PA (sub and two mains) as part of your budget for getting going, that way you know at least you can carry the stage in less-than-ideal rooms.

 

[ItWillDo]

This is a pretty common approach at this point. The best way to to do it so to have rendered audio of your non-live instruments (audio playback is way less work on a computer than sampler/synth via MIDI) and have at least your drummer playing to a click track. An audio interface that doubles as a mixer (X32/XR18 and many others) that have multiple outputs so you can send individual tracks to FOH or a stereo mix is the way to go, IMO. You don't even need anything special like ReaLive (a paid skin for Reaper) or Ableton, unless you're planning on improvising arrangements during your set. I use Repear and the region playlist for my bands. I would include a decent small PA (sub and two mains) as part of your budget for getting going, that way you know at least you can carry the stage in less-than-ideal rooms.

Thanks for the feedback, very valuable!

The plan as I had it my head for now would basically be:
- Guitar 1 (Me) -> AXE FX -> Direct IN to mixer
- Guitar 2 (AUTO) -> Reaper (pre-recorded patch or possible dry signal recording + VST) -> Mixer
- Ambient / Keys -> Reaper (MIDI exported from Guitar Pro + VST) -> Mixer
- Bass -> Reaper (prerecorded or MIDI to Djinbass VST) -> Mixer
- Drums -> Click -> Direct IN to mixer
-> 2x Overhead mic -> Direct IN to Mixer

Ideally I'd want to have individually set up outputs for the IEM's and also individual signals for the FOH. Is this achievable or would it be better to just settle for a main stereo L + R for FOH?

 

[GunpointMetal]

yeah, totally doable with a splitter or a mixer with enough outputs and interface capabilities. I send my tracks and drops and bass guitar down their own mixer channels for in-ears then out their own mixer aux outs to send to FOH. Our in-ear mixes are on other six outs. Anything you’re doing MIDI into a VSTi just render to an audio track. You can always EQ it in the mixer on its own channel.

 

[ItWillDo]

Hey everyone,

So I've been thinking about this concept for a while now and I've pretty much figured out how I want to proceed for now in terms of setup. I'm highly likely going to retire the Axe FX III for now, and I'm going to use the Neural DSP VST's in combination with Reaper for my own tone "provision", and aside from that I'll also add additional tracks for all other instruments/effects where necessary.

This is all going to be run on a Macbook Pro M1, using a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 as the main interface:



The ADA8200's inputs probably won't be used, but it will mainly be used to provide outputs for the FOH coming from the 18i20's optical ADAT output (using the 18i20's WC as master).
The latter Shure modules will be used for my own IEM & wireless guitar input.

So this is basically the plan for now, I'm going to set it up the coming weeks, give it some test rides on rehearsals with our drummer/vocalist and then see where changes are required. I'll try to keep this thread updated in case anyone is planning on a similar approach.

 

[Yul Brynner]

My friend's stepdad was a classic/southern/rock/gospel srv wannabe. He used to wheel out an old school a/v cart with his 90s PC on it to play his midi backing tracks while he played his strat and sang. Like a one man and a PC band kind of thing. Only the rest of the "band" sounded like a kid's Casio keyboard from 1988. It was pretty cringe tbh.

 

[irinairenne]

I opt definitely for The Knife Band - the Swedish electronic music duo 'cause it uses a variety of digital instruments and samples to create their complex and layered sound

 

[ItWillDo]

​

Had our first band practice with this setup recently, the remarks I have for now:

- The Shure PSM300 & GLXD4R+ are an amazing combination. I haven't experienced any dropouts at all whether it's on guitar or IEM's, so I'd definitely recommend these in your setup. Latency is also practically unnoticable.

- The Scarlett 18i20 is easily configurable, but sometimes your routing can be thrown off by the "Focusrite Control" driver/application you also need to install. Sometimes had the issue that a line out didn't seem to work, but when looking into it, it was not an issue in my routing setup in Reaper, but rather a default "Mute" in Focusrite Control. Not sure why they'd default to this though.

- Initial setup in band room to get everything configured was about ~40 min, but I assume this is also plenty of start-up cost as this included mixing of the IEM routing. Next practice it's probably just "plug & go".

- The fact that there was only 2 of us for now (guitar + drums) and everything else was rendered, really added tempo to the band practice in the sense that I had the feeling we were a lot more focussed. Only thing we both have to work on a bit more is not trying to follow each other, but rather the click track as this is the master now.

 

[wheresthefbomb]

My friend's stepdad was a classic/southern/rock/gospel srv wannabe. He used to wheel out an old school a/v cart with his 90s PC on it to play his midi backing tracks while he played his strat and sang. Like a one man and a PC band kind of thing. Only the rest of the "band" sounded like a kid's Casio keyboard from 1988. It was pretty cringe tbh.

We have one of those guys around here. He recently broke down and hired a bassist, drummer, and even a harmonica player (my former landlord, and the only real talent in the band). Even with the rest of the band, his covers are the most soulless renditions you'll ever hear. Former landlord plays with a lot of blues bands around, I'd always ask him what gigs he had coming up and if it was one with this guy he'd just roll his eyes lmao. At least he pays his band.

I opt definitely for The Knife Band - the Swedish electronic music duo 'cause it uses a variety of digital instruments and samples to create their complex and layered sound

I was recently shown The Knife Live At Terminal 5, and... wow.