AWESOME NEW 7 STRING RANS!!! (Pic Heavy)

[Matt Crooks]

Nice guitars indeed, the JS is pure sex.

And to all that copyright infringement/lawsuit stuff, I don't agree.

Ask Ibanez to build you a custom if you're not an endorser.
Ask Jackson CS to build you a custom 7 that isn't holy fucking shit expensive.
Ask a major company's custom shop to do any variations on body shape, put a different headstock etc... chances are they won't do it, or not to a large extent.
Ask any major company do to a fanned fret/8 string design, I dare you.

Small custom shops exist for those needs, and I don't consider RAN is really ripping off Ibanez or Jackson or BC Rich.
Oh yeah, sure, they're really killing the sales for Ibanez's 7 string 24 fret neck-thru JS shaped models...

So just drop it.

So basically you're saying because "I am not an endorser", or "It's too expensive" or "they won't do it", it's ok to steal the companies design? The hours upon hours they spent designing that guitar have no value? That is bullshit.

As soon as you ask a major company to vary the headstock or body design, you're in the clear completely, it's no longer a protected design.

As for ripping off Ibanez or Jackon on BC Rich. They are exact copies, they are rip offs. Period. The amount of sales they may or may not be taking from those companies doesn't change that fact.

You aren't providing any legitimate reasons why the copies should be allowed. Your argument comes down to "if someone wants something, at a price they want, it's fine." Bullshit.

 

[DDDorian]

The way I see it is that Ran don't market themselves specifically on their ability to copy other designs but more generally on their ability to build whatever the customer asks for; the fact that 99% of their guitars are blatant copies of existing guitars says more about the tastes of the customers than anything else.

As for these guitars in articular, the JS clone is definitely the best Ran I've ever seen. Probably the only one worth the insane price.

 

[Drew]

Yeah, this is intellectual property theft, plain and simple. They're taking someone else's design work, slapping their own logo on the headstock, and building an exact copy with a few specs changed here and there to the customer request.

 

[Desecrated]

So basically you're saying because "I am not an endorser", or "It's too expensive" or "they won't do it", it's ok to steal the companies design? The hours upon hours they spent designing that guitar have no value? That is bullshit.

It doesn't have any value to me, why should I care?
And why should you care, if you don’t happen to own the company itself, because then I can understand if you get upset, but if you’re like me, just another player, I really donät understand why it’s worth getting so upset about?

And also yes, if I want a hellraiser with a quilted bubinga top, a kahler and I’m willing to pay for it, I don’t see what the problem is.
Schecter isn’t providing such a guitar and I really don’t feel like getting a custom shape.
I don’t even know how to draw, how should I even create a custom shape?
I just want the body shape and neck that I’m used to, but with a different top for a different sound and a kahler instead of a tom bridge.
Why should I have to adjust myself to a new custom shape? if the only thing I’m after is a new top and a new bridge.

Now, some of you might say, why not just buy the guitar; install a new top and kahler.
Well in many cases that will cost as much as getting a custom, and there is a chance that the guitar will be better if it’s handmade from the ground up then just a heavily modified Korean shop guitar.

As soon as you ask a major company to vary the headstock or body design, you're in the clear completely, it's no longer a protected design.

As for ripping off Ibanez or Jackon on BC Rich. They are exact copies, they are rip offs. Period. The amount of sales they may or may not be taking from those companies doesn't change that fact.

They are not exact copies, because the specs are different, the only thing that is the same is the outline of the guitar.
If I made a car that looked like a Volvo but equipped it with racing suspension, brakes and engine, you can't really say that it is an exact copy, it's just that they look the same, but last time I checked, you owned a car to drive with and not to look at. And the same goes for a guitar, the purpose of a guitar is to play on, and if you want to build a custom and just want your favourite body shape but with some more radical specs, I really don't see what the problem is.

You aren't providing any legitimate reasons why the copies should be allowed. Your argument comes down to "if someone wants something, at a price they want, it's fine." Bullshit.

I think that is a pretty good argument, if there is a need for something I don't see what's so bad about providing it, as long as it doesn't hurt anybody.
Now you don’t have to agree with me and you’re entitled to your own opinion, but calling it bullshit is just rude and not called for.

Yeah, this is intellectual property theft, plain and simple. They're taking someone else's design work, slapping their own logo on the headstock, and building an exact copy with a few specs changed here and there to the customer request.

In today’s society intellectual property theft is so integrated that I really don't think most of us care any more. I'm not saying that it's not wrong, or that you shouldn't care, just that most people don't really mind.

 

[ogisha007]

I agree with Desecrated.

The point is, they're not really hurting the major manufacturers. Some of the stuff they provide are indeed ripoffs, but they also provide guitars that aren't one on one copies, either with a different body shape, different specs, headstock, whatever...
I'd like you to come up with a design that doesn't look like somebody else's.

I don't really get it, if for an example Ibanez doesn't make an Xiphos bass or a 7 string JS, are you supposed to just wait for(n)ever for them to make them, or are you gonna go to a luthier and have it made, and have a guitar that suits you 100%? They don't make millions of these on an assembly line, they are made by request, for individuals who have ordered them.

Plus, another point to consider is shipping and taxes. For me, it would be tons cheaper to get a custom from Poland than to get it shipped all the way from the USA, where most guitar manufacturers are located.

 

[Matt Crooks]

It doesn't have any value to me, why should I care?
And why should you care, if you don’t happen to own the company itself, because then I can understand if you get upset, but if you’re like me, just another player, I really don't understand why it’s worth getting so upset about?

So as long as someone breaking a law doesn't effect me personally I shouldn't care about the law being broken?

 

[Matt Crooks]

I agree with Desecrated.

The point is, they're not really hurting the major manufacturers. Some of the stuff they provide are indeed ripoffs, but they also provide guitars that aren't one on one copies, either with a different body shape, different specs, headstock, whatever...
I'd like you to come up with a design that doesn't look like somebody else's.

I don't really get it, if for an example Ibanez doesn't make an Xiphos bass or a 7 string JS, are you supposed to just wait for(n)ever for them to make them, or are you gonna go to a luthier and have it made, and have a guitar that suits you 100%? They don't make millions of these on an assembly line, they are made by request, for individuals who have ordered them.

Plus, another point to consider is shipping and taxes. For me, it would be tons cheaper to get a custom from Poland than to get it shipped all the way from the USA, where most guitar manufacturers are located.

All just justifications for intellectual property theft.

 

[Desecrated]

So as long as someone breaking a law doesn't effect me personally I shouldn't care about the law being broken?

Pretty much yeah, especially if nobody gets hurt.

 

[Matt Crooks]

Pretty much yeah, especially if nobody gets hurt.

Wow.

 

[ogisha007]

All just justifications for intellectual property theft.

I don't see Jackson and Ibanez getting all upset about RAN, so I don't see why should you.

 

[Matt Crooks]

I don't see Jackson and Ibanez getting all upset about RAN, so I don't see why should you.

It's not that they're not upset, it that there's nothing they can do about it. If Ran operated in the US, they'd be out of business.

...and I don't really care about Ran one way or another, the cavalier attitude towards intellectual property just makes me sad, that's all.

 

[Elysian]

I agree with Desecrated.

The point is, they're not really hurting the major manufacturers. Some of the stuff they provide are indeed ripoffs, but they also provide guitars that aren't one on one copies, either with a different body shape, different specs, headstock, whatever...
I'd like you to come up with a design that doesn't look like somebody else's.

I don't really get it, if for an example Ibanez doesn't make an Xiphos bass or a 7 string JS, are you supposed to just wait for(n)ever for them to make them, or are you gonna go to a luthier and have it made, and have a guitar that suits you 100%? They don't make millions of these on an assembly line, they are made by request, for individuals who have ordered them.

Plus, another point to consider is shipping and taxes. For me, it would be tons cheaper to get a custom from Poland than to get it shipped all the way from the USA, where most guitar manufacturers are located.

I've come up with designs that don't look like anyone elses, and if be through the roof pissed if ran or anyone else felt like they had the right to use them. You might not take issue with it, but this is an issue that could personally effect fellow forum members.

 

[Sebastian]

So as long as someone breaking a law doesn't effect me personally I shouldn't care about the law being broken?

Law where ? in the US ?

If Ran operated in the US, they'd be out of business.

Yes... but they don't operate there... ...



I know that it isnt the best thing to copy others designs... but hey.. you cant do nothing about it.. and I doubt it will change... at least in the near future ?

 

[nikt]

Yeah, this is intellectual property theft, plain and simple.

sorry Drew but it's not in Poland. US copyrights don't work here unless you will go with your designs to patent office (here). Ran is making copies cause nobody give a damn about registring his own designs in so small coutry like Poland,and you can't blame Ran for that.

 

[Matt Crooks]

Law where ? in the US ?

That was just a general/hypothetical question, not specific to Ran.

I know that it isnt the best thing to copy others designs... but hey.. you cant do nothing about it.. and I doubt it will change... at least in the near future ?

No it's not going to change. They'll continue to benefit from IP developed by other people.

 

[Matt Crooks]

sorry Drew but it's not in Poland. US copyrights don't work here unless you will go with your designs to patent office (here). Ran is making copies cause nobody give a damn about registring his own designs in so small coutry like Poland,and you can't blame Ran for that.

I CAN blame Ran for that. Just because the patents weren't filed in Poland, doesn't make it any more right. It might make it legal, but that's it.

 

[nikt]

I CAN blame Ran for that.

OK. so that's probably the only thing that you can do about it. as there are now laws right now, that can stop him from doing those copies

 

[Sebastian]

I dont see Big companies which just dont care about their property, change anything..

I think they could... but that will not happen.

EDIT: sniped by nikt ..

 

[zorn]

Although I do not believe that stealing intellectual property is to be taken lightly we are not talking about advanced rocket science here.

The whole TM thing has gotten far out of hand IMO.

If I am able to copy the Mona Lisa for personal use nobody should feel offended.
If I sell this to a friend because of the time and material involved nobody should feel offended either.
If I start to copy the ML on a larger scale and start to personalize it to my customers needs, again no one should feel offended. The painting has been part of our culture for a very long time and changing its design can even be a new act of art in itself.
If I copy the painting and try to sell it as the original then people should feel offended because I'm trying to cheat and take advantage of them.

I believe that RAN is doing the third. They fullfill certain custom needs the big companies won't offer and they sell it under their brand with all of its consequences.
If you buy an Ibanez guitar and handle it carefully you might have a good chance of reselling it years later to Ibanez collectors for a good price. I heavilly doubt that we will see dedicated RAN collectors in the future.
Thanks through the nature of the internet intellectual property theft is quickly discovered and not good for business.

If I remember correctly RAN guitars have not a good resale value because of their highly customizable nature and their lack of originality. So people should think twice about getting one if they are unsure if it's a keeper.

It gets a little bit more tragic when small luthiers are involved. Honestly I do not believe that coming up with a simple new headstock design gives them every right to survive. It takes a bit more to stay successfull then being a one trick pony. Especially when small custom luthiers seem to appear on every corner. You need to come up with something that makes your guitars unique and desirable. If you succeed a simple copycat won't hurt your business.

 

[Matt Crooks]

OK. so that's probably the only thing that you can do about it. as there are now laws right now, that can stop him from doing those copies

No, I can also make sure that any Ran I order doesn't infringe on IP owned by another company.

Don't get me wrong, his guitars do look awesome, and I'm sure they're great.