DI Boxes and Guitar/Bass Recording

[Vinny554]

Hey all, hoping to get your input (no pun intended...har har) on the use of DI boxes for my particular recording setup. I'm aware that opinions vary all over the place as to whether or not a DI box is necessary when you have a decent Audio Interface, but it seems the consensus among reputable engineers is that DI boxes are more-often-than-not a better idea than an interface by itself.

So, here's my rig and desired goal.
I have a PRS SE SVN (also bass sometimes) that I run direct into an Audient iD22 interface (about a $500 interface).
The results are decent - better than my previous Focusrite Scarlet obviously - but still would like to upgrade this setup for the best possible DI guitar and bass recordings. Me and my band typically record all our DIs at home and send to engineers, so great DIs are crucial here.
(Also note: we create metalcore, djent, death metal, whatever subgenre that includes riffs and breakdowns ok?)

Here are my questions:
- My guitars all have passive pickups - so I assumed an active DI box would be the right option, however I've seen folks say this doesn't matter and some passive DI boxes are much better. Thoughts on this?
- If I were to grab a lower-end but promising DI box....like a Radial or Countryman....would that even produce any better results than my Audient?
- Lastly, if not, I was thinking eventually looking at some of the higher-end DIs if necessary (CAL MW1, Avalon U5, etc.) and are these THAT much better? (also have more questions regarding the setup on this should we get into it).

Fortunately but unfortunately, this is my ridiculous hobby outside of corporate America, so I'm willing to pay for solid equipment to obtain great results. Any thoughts are appreciated. Cheers!

 

[oneblackened]

The Countryman is kind of harsh sounding, to be honest. The best sounding DI I've come across is the Rupert Neve Designs RNDI - which is about $250. I didn't think it would make as big of a difference as it did.

 

[Vinny554]

The Countryman is kind of harsh sounding, to be honest. The best sounding DI I've come across is the Rupert Neve Designs RNDI - which is about $250. I didn't think it would make as big of a difference as it did.

I've heard great things about the RNDI also. Noticed in your signature you have an Audience iD22 as well. Do you chain the RNDI into the iD22? If so, has it improved your DIs from the Audient by itself?

Lastly, kind of odd you specifically responded because I have another thread asking about pickups - one of which being the BKP Rags. How do you like them?

 

[oneblackened]

I've heard great things about the RNDI also. Noticed in your signature you have an Audience iD22 as well. Do you chain the RNDI into the iD22? If so, has it improved your DIs from the Audient by itself?

That's actually slightly out of date - I don't own the Audient any more. But the Audient's hi-z input is about as good as interface instrument inputs get, in my experience. The RNDI is slightly thicker, not a huge difference though.

Lastly, kind of odd you specifically responded because I have another thread asking about pickups - one of which being the BKP Rags. How do you like them?

The bridge is cool - it's got that EMG 81 kind of crunchy mids thing. Neck's too warm for me.

 

[DudeManBrother]

I’ve got a dbx djdi, and behringer DI600P for passive boxes, and a Radial J48 active box. I always used the J48 for recording DI tracks into my Presonus Interfaces. I did notice a difference in track quality vs direct into interface. I haven’t really felt the need to use it since I got my UA Apollo though. I’ll have to A/B some wave files and see if there a difference. Just sound wise I really can’t tell a difference.

 

[Carl Kolchak]

Placing a Radial DI box in front of my Scarlett Solo worked. It improved clarity and opened up the high end response. Definitely a noticeable improvement tone-wise. When I tried placing the same DI box in front of an Audient Sono I couldn't hear any noticeable change in the quality of my signal.

I'm thinking then that at a certain point the law of diminishing tonal returns must start to kick in when upgrading to a better quality interface.

 

[Vinny554]

I’ve got a dbx djdi, and behringer DI600P for passive boxes, and a Radial J48 active box. I always used the J48 for recording DI tracks into my Presonus Interfaces. I did notice a difference in track quality vs direct into interface. I haven’t really felt the need to use it since I got my UA Apollo though. I’ll have to A/B some wave files and see if there a difference. Just sound wise I really can’t tell a difference.

Definitely want to snag the Apollo - mostly for the vocal preamps but I've heard the DI input is great on it also.

Placing a Radial DI box in front of my Scarlett Solo worked. It improved clarity and opened up the high end response. Definitely a noticeable improvement tone-wise. When I tried placing the same DI box in front of an Audient Sono I couldn't hear any noticeable change in the quality of my signal.

I'm thinking then that at a certain point the law of diminishing tonal returns must start to kick in when upgrading to a better quality interface.

Definitely noticed an improvement in the Audient vs my original Scarlett 2i2. I'd like to swap out my pickups also since they are the stock ones on the PRS SE SVN - feel as though there'd be an improvement on this.

 

[Carl Kolchak]

Definitely noticed an improvement in the Audient vs my original Scarlett 2i2. I'd like to swap out my pickups also since they are the stock ones on the PRS SE SVN - feel as though there'd be an improvement on this.

Try upgrading you instrument cables too.

 

[Vinny554]

Try upgrading you instrument cables too.

Have a Mogami. Any other suggestions?

 

[Carl Kolchak]

Have a Mogami. Any other suggestions?

I splurged on some Lava cables. I'd definitely recommend them.

 

[Vinny554]

I splurged on some Lava cables. I'd definitely recommend them.

Are we talking the $80 Lavas or the $300 Lavas lol

 

[Carl Kolchak]

Are we talking the $80 Lavas or the $300 Lavas lol

The +/- $30 ones.
https://www.lavacable.com/product/528/lava-magma

 

[Vinny554]

The +/- $30 ones.
https://www.lavacable.com/product/528/lava-magma

Had you noticed a different from cables previously?

 

[c7spheres]

Rule of thumb is passive pickups = active di, active pickups = passive di. I'm here to say it's a myth. YOu can use whatever on whatever. In fact less noise usually form passive Di'.
I've had two Avalon U5's before. It's sounds incredible but does impart it's own tone. The pots are stepped so you may not like that if you wnat an in between settnigs. It's great though. Clapton used one live for Layla on his nylon string.
- The passive JDI is phenomenal. It's really flat, imparts no noise, improves the noise flloor, helps shield RFI and EMI really well too. Give one a try and return it if you don't like it. It will not impart it's own tone though it will really clean up and stabilize that signal. I love those JDI's the most.

 

[Carl Kolchak]

Had you noticed a different from cables previously?

There weren't any "night and day" differences on their own sonically-speaking, no. It was more the case where all the little things I was doing were beginning to audibly accumulate. Things like less hiss/noise, improved clarity, and, most importantly, a wider/richer translation of audible freqs.

Think of it like this, it's not so much the case of being able to make drastic, OMG-tier improvements in the quality of your recordings (although that's not to say that making a significant/expensive gear upgrade won't yield immediate results, it will.), rather, it's the slow and gradual elimination of those negative elements holding your tone back you should be working towards.

 

[Vinny554]

Rule of thumb is passive pickups = active di, active pickups = passive di. I'm here to say it's a myth. YOu can use whatever on whatever. In fact less noise usually form passive Di'.
I've had two Avalon U5's before. It's sounds incredible but does impart it's own tone. The pots are stepped so you may not like that if you wnat an in between settnigs. It's great though. Clapton used one live for Layla on his nylon string.
- The passive JDI is phenomenal. It's really flat, imparts no noise, improves the noise flloor, helps shield RFI and EMI really well too. Give one a try and return it if you don't like it. It will not impart it's own tone though it will really clean up and stabilize that signal. I love those JDI's the most.

I've heard it's a myth also, but what kept me confused was that even Radial has a video on Youtube that suggests it also - passive box for active pickups, the opposite, etc.

In regards to the U5, I've gathered that recently. It's "clean" but also is used to color the sound in its own way (more specifically for bass). Since I don't necessarily want coloring to the guitar DI, might lean away from this option. Bass DIs can always use some color, but not for guitar imo. The MW1 might be the long-term jump for me. Thanks. Many praises on the JDI from what I've seen.

There weren't any "night and day" differences on their own sonically-speaking, no. It was more the case where all the little things I was doing were beginning to audibly accumulate. Things like less hiss/noise, improved clarity, and, most importantly, a wider/richer translation of audible freqs.

Think of it like this, it's not so much the case of being able to make drastic, OMG-tier improvements in the quality of your recordings (although that's not to say that making a significant/expensive gear upgrade won't yield immediate results, it will.), rather, it's the slow and gradual elimination of those negative elements holding your tone back you should be working towards.

Well said, my friend. Thank you for the recommendations!

 

[c7spheres]

I've heard it's a myth also, but what kept me confused was that even Radial has a video on Youtube that suggests it also - passive box for active pickups, the opposite, etc.

In regards to the U5, I've gathered that recently. It's "clean" but also is used to color the sound in its own way (more specifically for bass). Since I don't necessarily want coloring to the guitar DI, might lean away from this option. Bass DIs can always use some color, but not for guitar imo. The MW1 might be the long-term jump for me. Thanks. Many praises on the JDI from what I've seen.



Well said, my friend. Thank you for the recommendations!

I think the Passive Di is for actve picuks thing is because some Di's could potentially load the pickup like a pedal does, but somethign likea JDI probably won't and even if it doesn it won't matter because it sounds phenomenal. I've owned a couple of them over the years. I used them as a DI, as a hum buster isolator for various things, and even to tap off my power amps speaker output too which sounds really good. Only the standard model has that option I think. Anyways, I was in staging for several years and every venue with it's own backline has a hadful of them because they just work well on everything. It's because the transformers are good. A lot of stuff comes down to quality components. There a lot of DI's that are designed well and shoudl theorhetically works great based on specs etc, but because they're built with lower quality or low tolerance spec'd comonents they don't get the job done. - Another "di" I didn't mention is the Lehle P-Split. It's a splitter with on split having and ISO transformer. I sounds really incredible. It's my favorite DI and I use it in my rig. I mention the JDI because it has more features and is technically a DI rather than a splitter, but it all your doing is wanting to stablize the signal and isolate it then the Lehle is great. I'd personally get the JDI because of versatility, xlr output option, option to run it backwards as a merger etc. The Lehle is great for when you want to split and isoalte without hum and nothing else.