Dingwall pickups for SR405EQM?

[WintermintP]

Hi

So I found out that there are some official Dingwall pickups that are available for sale in Bartolini pickup shape as well as a few other shapes, but I've been wondering whether there are any of the Dingwall pickups available that can fit in the SR405EQM without having to route the bass or I should look into getting a different bass altogether, and in the latter case, which 5-string bass that's budget friendly.

The main reason why I'm asking this question is because while the bass plays great, I'm tired of the dull tone that the bass has. I have this new Neural DSP Darkglass plugin, which is an official plugin version of the Darkglass B7K Ultra, but regardless of what I do, I can't seem to get the tone I'm really looking for.

This is the bass tone I've been trying to achieve:




Maybe I should look into buying a different brand of strings instead (but they're D'Addario 55-110 + 145 and strings at those gauges are hard to come by with other brands, especially the 145; and Kalium is not an option because they're expensive as hell and I live in Canada)? Maybe I should try to really focus on the tone stack of the plugin better (but I really can't seem to get that attack and the strings are actually quite new)? Honestly, though, I really wish I could just buy a Dingwall bass instead but they cost like, over $3K here in Canada (counting taxes and such) and the only used ones I found were on Reverb and they cost just as much as well, and because of how I write a lot of the bass parts I really need a 5-string bass, which doesn't help the situation either, and due to the oligopoly where I live, the markup in everything around here is disastrously huge...

Maybe I really should look into getting a different bass that's not a Dingwall? I have no clue how I can get that exact tone on a budget, though, and I've been looking for so many ways to try and prepare $3K to buy a Dingwall bass but saving up is not an option due to even the living expenses alone costing even more than an arm and a leg at this point (I'm not overexaggerating), so the only other option is to look into those grants, but there doesn't seem to be one available for equipment purchases. This is where everyone would say to get a job, but that's not an option either due to my disabilities.

WintermintP

 

[Masoo2]

Can you give an example of your DI tone, processed tone, and how you have your bass knobs setup?

 

[lewis]

just download loki bass from SOlemn tones haha. The default dingwall bass sound is exactly this tone you are after.

 

[dax21]

Boost the shit out of high mids and highs, use a compressor as well to give it that tight snappy feel.
99% of that sound is in the neck scale length, nothing sounds like a Dingwall because of that exact reason.

 

[WintermintP]

Can you give an example of your DI tone, processed tone, and how you have your bass knobs setup?

It's going to take a while, but I will get to that in a moment.

just download loki bass from SOlemn tones haha. The default dingwall bass sound is exactly this tone you are after.

I thought about that too, but one, the Default bass tone actually lacks the treble and bite I'm after so... no. Also, I talked with Maxime regarding the plugin because the low G actually sounds like triplets because one of the samples was louder than that of the rest, so he's in the middle of fixing that. Another problem with the Loki Bass plugin is that while the really low notes can really work, anything starting from the middle of its range and above will just lose itself in the mix, and that's all the more of a dealbreaker.

I actually have used the Loki Bass in this mix:

Boost the shit out of high mids and highs, use a compressor as well to give it that tight snappy feel.
99% of that sound is in the neck scale length, nothing sounds like a Dingwall because of that exact reason.

I initially thought so myself, but that doesn't make sense, as I know of a bunch of other multiscale basses and a bunch of other basses that have the same scale length as that of a Dingwall, but even those basses don't sound remotely close to the Dingwall, so I can't help but be convinced that the majority of the sound is from the Dingwall pickups themselves.

Also, to remind all of you, I actually have the Darkglass B7K Ultra in plugin form, so the real problem is the bass itself, as all of the other angles are already covered. The real problem is to just figure out how to get the bass to have that sharp attack and good bite.

WintermintP

 

[lewis]

It's going to take a while, but I will get to that in a moment.


I thought about that too, but one, the Default bass tone actually lacks the treble and bite I'm after so... no. Also, I talked with Maxime regarding the plugin because the low G actually sounds like triplets because one of the samples was louder than that of the rest, so he's in the middle of fixing that. Another problem with the Loki Bass plugin is that while the really low notes can really work, anything starting from the middle of its range and above will just lose itself in the mix, and that's all the more of a dealbreaker.

I actually have used the Loki Bass in this mix:



I initially thought so myself, but that doesn't make sense, as I know of a bunch of other multiscale basses and a bunch of other basses that have the same scale length as that of a Dingwall, but even those basses don't sound remotely close to the Dingwall, so I can't help but be convinced that the majority of the sound is from the Dingwall pickups themselves.

WintermintP

and what happens in Loki when you crank the high knob and cut some mids etc?

 

[Beheroth]

bartolini are pretty dark pickups with tons of low mid, try cutting lowmids at 250~500Hz and boost around 1,5K~2Khz or higher. Also play with the grunt and attack switch.

putting dingwall pu in your bass won't turn it into a dingwall, that tone come from the scale length and the pickup placement. try using the bridge pickup only

 

[WintermintP]

and what happens in Loki when you crank the high knob and cut some mids etc?

That video was with the Loki's High knob cranked all the way up. The treble was craked up quite a bit on the B7K as well.

bartolini are pretty dark pickups with tons of low mid, try cutting lowmids at 250~500Hz and boost around 1,5K~2Khz or higher. Also play with the grunt and attack switch.

I have no clue if my bass has Bartolinis actually. If they do, I should be able to replace the pickups with the Dingwall, shouldn't I?

Yeap, I was right, they're not Bartolini. They're a brand called PowerSpan.

These guys at Ibanez advertised the pickups to have more powerful highs. I can't help but call that bollocks.

putting dingwall pu in your bass won't turn it into a dingwall, that tone come from the scale length and the pickup placement. try using the bridge pickup only

They won't turn it into a Dingwall, but they might get me some better treble, so I thought I should at least give it a try.

WintermintP

 

[lewis]

That video was with the Loki's High knob cranked all the way up. The treble was craked up quite a bit on the B7K as well.


I have no clue if my bass has Bartolinis actually. If they do, I should be able to replace the pickups with the Dingwall, shouldn't I?

Yeap, I was right, they're not Bartolini. They're a brand called PowerSpan.

These guys at Ibanez advertised the pickups to have more powerful highs. I can't help but call that bollocks.



They won't turn it into a Dingwall, but they might get me some better treble, so I thought I should at least give it a try.

WintermintP

I mean what about just doing the age old thing of boosting grindy/twangy frequencies on an EQ plugin after an instance of Loki?
Other than that, I really cant help you im afraid.

The TONE that I like is what Loki seems to nail right out the box so Im happy.

 

[Masoo2]

What else are you doing to supplement the Darkglass plugin?

Cause fyi none of those examples you linked are raw B7K. Both are running through processors (Axe FX and Zoom B3) with amp simulation, cab simulation, and most definitely compression/EQ.

And lets not forget the extra processing in the DAW.

Bass tone to me is an in-the-mix type deal. I can't come up with a good isolated bass tone to save my life with my current gear (Stingray 5HH into DAW) because the sound I have in my head () is quite simply unobtainable without the extended scale of basses like Dingwalls and other fanned fret/37 inch basses.

However, I can make a bass tone that fits a mix no problem because I've been mixing metal for years. Mix-tones are WAY different that isolated-tones and honestly could sound nothing close to the tone you had in your mind yet still works perfectly.

Dingwall pickups won't help unless you place two of them right beside each other and run them in series. Even then, I doubt that'd make any real difference.

It's all scale.

 

[LordCashew]

I initially thought so myself, but that doesn't make sense, as I know of a bunch of other multiscale basses and a bunch of other basses that have the same scale length as that of a Dingwall, but even those basses don't sound remotely close to the Dingwall, so I can't help but be convinced that the majority of the sound is from the Dingwall pickups themselves.

I think you're right about this. The longer scale certainly provides the physical tightness but Dingwall has been very intentional about designing and placing his pickups to capture it in a specific way. I also imagine things like very stiff neck construction play a more subtle role as well. As you say, the difference between Dingwall and similarly-specced basses is often quite pronounced in demos, etc.

I'm familiar with the pickups in your bass - I have a buddy who wasn't able to get them to cut through in a church band setting. "Powerful highs," indeed...

Upgrading to Dingwall FD-3s in series is probably the closest you're going to get to that Dingwall tone in your bass. But honestly, I think you could get a pretty close approximation with a number of less expensive passive pickups. Something voiced to sound like a hot J-style pickup in the bridge position could be a suitable replacement as well IMO. There are a number of guys who I think were headed in your tonal direction with Fender-style instruments before the advent of Darkglass gear - Christian Olde Wolbers comes to mind, and he used mostly 5 string Fenders Jazzes I believe.

Also, if you do end up changing pickups I recommend you get rid of that Ibanez pre. The OEM preamps are almost always the weakest link in inexpensive active basses, and you will probably get a more transparent tone for recording if you wire the bass passive.

 

[Beheroth]

Also, if you do end up changing pickups I recommend you get rid of that Ibanez pre. The OEM preamps are almost always the weakest link in inexpensive active basses, and you will probably get a more transparent tone for recording if you wire the bass passive.

^this
before investing any money, try bypassing/removing the preamp and while you're doing that, wire your pickups in series. A big part of the "dingwall sound" (actually it's more the "nolly sound" than the dingwall but...) is the two bridge pickup wired in series.

 

[lewis]

^this
before investing any money, try bypassing/removing the preamp and while you're doing that, wire your pickups in series. A big part of the "dingwall sound" (actually it's more the "nolly sound" than the dingwall but...) is the two bridge pickup wired in series.

yeah I would replace it with the Dingwall Tone capsule.

 

[WintermintP]

What else are you doing to supplement the Darkglass plugin?

Cause fyi none of those examples you linked are raw B7K. Both are running through processors (Axe FX and Zoom B3) with amp simulation, cab simulation, and most definitely compression/EQ.

And lets not forget the extra processing in the DAW.

Bass tone to me is an in-the-mix type deal. I can't come up with a good isolated bass tone to save my life with my current gear (Stingray 5HH into DAW) because the sound I have in my head () is quite simply unobtainable without the extended scale of basses like Dingwalls and other fanned fret/37 inch basses.

However, I can make a bass tone that fits a mix no problem because I've been mixing metal for years. Mix-tones are WAY different that isolated-tones and honestly could sound nothing close to the tone you had in your mind yet still works perfectly.

Dingwall pickups won't help unless you place two of them right beside each other and run them in series. Even then, I doubt that'd make any real difference.

It's all scale.

Okay, let me clarify real quick. I know for a fact that scale plays a factor, but if it were to play that big a factor then it would've been pointless for Nordstrand and Sheldon Dingwall to come up with pickups readily available for basses with parallel frets. Besides, I'm not after that exact tone per se, but what I did want was the punchy grit and treble similar to that of a Dingwall through a B7K Ultra. I know for a fact that if I really wanted that exact tone then I would've had to get a friggin' multiscale bass and then put the Nordstrand on it or even go as far as buying a Dingwall even though the used ones cost just as much if not more than the new ones.

@Masoo2

Sorry this took a while, but here's the bass DI. I think I have everything at noon except for the master volume which is at full.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1oMOs1eq19SMrsQXQyTalh1Dx2OAfchun

Same bass DI, except I added the Darkglass and other processing. Again, I must remind everyone that the Darkglass I have is a plugin.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1RpRHIV_G1Cmd-kfV9QE6DYs7p3oREfWx

Full song where the bass was extracted from.
https://soundcloud.com/wintermintp/one-minute-winter-pumpa-pumpa

As for the additional processing besides the Darkglass B7K Ultra, it's just corrective EQ and limiting.

I think you're right about this. The longer scale certainly provides the physical tightness but Dingwall has been very intentional about designing and placing his pickups to capture it in a specific way. I also imagine things like very stiff neck construction play a more subtle role as well. As you say, the difference between Dingwall and similarly-specced basses is often quite pronounced in demos, etc.

I'm familiar with the pickups in your bass - I have a buddy who wasn't able to get them to cut through in a church band setting. "Powerful highs," indeed...

Upgrading to Dingwall FD-3s in series is probably the closest you're going to get to that Dingwall tone in your bass. But honestly, I think you could get a pretty close approximation with a number of less expensive passive pickups. Something voiced to sound like a hot J-style pickup in the bridge position could be a suitable replacement as well IMO. There are a number of guys who I think were headed in your tonal direction with Fender-style instruments before the advent of Darkglass gear - Christian Olde Wolbers comes to mind, and he used mostly 5 string Fenders Jazzes I believe.

Also, if you do end up changing pickups I recommend you get rid of that Ibanez pre. The OEM preamps are almost always the weakest link in inexpensive active basses, and you will probably get a more transparent tone for recording if you wire the bass passive.

^this
before investing any money, try bypassing/removing the preamp and while you're doing that, wire your pickups in series. A big part of the "dingwall sound" (actually it's more the "nolly sound" than the dingwall but...) is the two bridge pickup wired in series.

yeah I would replace it with the Dingwall Tone capsule.

Dingwall Tone Capsule. Nice thought! That'll be the first thing to buy along with the pickups! Now if only I could figure out where to buy it. Still, though, I honestly think I really should go for the FD3s. I won't be able to line them right beside each other, but I think I might be able to get satisfactory results with the Tone Capsule at least.

Regarding Fender-style instruments, the first guy that comes to mind is Gabe Crisp from Whitechapel, who has been using a traditional PJ style 4-string bass along with the same gauges of strings that I currently use, and he did use a B7K before switching to the Alpha-Omega Ultra. In fact, I was inspired to go after the B7K plugin after seeing that Gabe Crisp used the B7K, and I was also inspired to start writing songs in Drop G tuning because of Gabe Crisp. Even the gauges I'm using now were based on the information I got from Gabe Crisp himself. He's almost like an idol to me.

But then if it's possible to get that treble-heavy tone using a Fender-style bass, then all I would have to do is buy the Fender J impulse responses from 3 Sigma Audio (it'll make almost any bass sound like a Fender J Bass)...

Regarding wiring the bass passive, nah, I'd rather get the Tone Capsule. Like I've said many times, and I'll say it again, I really am a fan of the active tone.

WintermintP

EDIT: Quite honestly, though, I may have to hold off on the purchase for a little while because if I can get more information on the grants that my classmates got to purchase their equipment and if I get my hands on the same amount of money, the first thing I would go for is that turquoise Dingwall bass that looks real nice...

 

[Masoo2]

How fresh are the strings? Cause honestly this sounds like dead strings + not enough high end + too much mids on the DI track. Also, how new are the batteries?

I'd still try putting an amp + cab (or even just cab) after the signal chain though just to see the results.

 

[Beheroth]

the tone capsule is litterally an onboard eq, set flat there's nothing going on, nothing to do with the darkglass tone , it's pointless IMO

that soundclip is hella farty and muddy, once again :

try cutting lowmids at 250~500Hz and boost around 1,5K~2Khz or higher. Also play with the grunt and attack switch.

put the grunt in cut and the attack in boost

 

[Mwoit]

I own Dingwall basses and Darkglass pedals, but I'd say you can get closer to that sound you're after with some processing and plug ins.

As mentioned above, the raw DI is really farty and muddy which isn't so good. It sounds like you're clipping the input signal. How new are the strings?

Try to EQ the hell out of your input signal, get rid of lots of the low mids and boosting high mids to get more attack in.

What is your signal chain in your DAW?

 

[WintermintP]

I think I got the bass in May. I bought the bass like, the month before, but I had the guys change the strings before it got to me. So... new strings again? I don't know if the stores even carry the 145 string anymore, because it felt like I got the last 145 string when I bought it. I'll check again though.

WintermintP

 

[Beheroth]

d'addario may have the gauges you want but they're dead within a month, if you don't want to change brand at least try the stainless steel ones they will be brighter and last a tad longer

 

[WintermintP]

d'addario may have the gauges you want but they're dead within a month, if you don't want to change brand at least try the stainless steel ones they will be brighter and last a tad longer

So I've wasted all that precious dough trying to buy bass strings locally... ._.

Kalium strings cost a fortune per pack though... T.T

Is there a way to get Ernie Ball strings at 145 gauge? I know the bass player for Fit for an Autopsy was able to get 'em...

WintermintP