Drum mixing/programming guide for guitar players!

[vejichan]

I'm a guitar player who wants to program drums in ez drummer/steve slate/addictive drums for recording purposes. Is there a formula you guys use use? like maybe every 4 grooves and a fill...w/occasional cymbal clash here or there? i'm a beginner at this... need some advice to improve programming drums.

THanks

 

[Captain Butterscotch]

When I write my songs, I tab them out in Guitar Pro. When I do that, my drums are normally very close to what I would have them play when I record them. When I want to record the songs, I export the MIDI information and drag it into the drum track and sometimes mess with fills or different cymbals or something. THEN I go and edit every hit's velocity to add variety and make it sound more natural.

 

[Mikeyprs]

When I write my songs, I tab them out in Guitar Pro. When I do that, my drums are normally very close to what I would have them play when I record them. When I want to record the songs, I export the MIDI information and drag it into the drum track and sometimes mess with fills or different cymbals or something. THEN I go and edit every hit's velocity to add variety and make it sound more natural.

^ This is almost exactly my workflow too.
Write song in GP, when done either copy drums to a separate guitar pro file or just export the drums as midi (sometimes both incase i decide to go back to make big changes quicker to the drum beat if nesscessary).

Sometimes it's helpful to look at the midi key information of whichever drum plug in you end up using (I personally am a Superior Drummer guy) which will help you in to know which midi notes to hit for a particular kit piece in a particular way or "articulation" as it's sometimes called.

For example, I have a word document for the purpose of telling me the kit piece, it's midi number and it's articulation in Referance to Superior Drummer's add-on pack The Metal Foundry.

In essence when it comes to drums, it's all down to what YOU Think is right for that section of the song or even look at how the riff is formed and then decide whether you want the snare to fall on beats 2 & 4 and kicks on 1 & 3 in like a standard rock beat or a "half-Time" feel with the Snare on beat 3 and the kicks doing whatever pattern it is you want them to do.

The other thing to bare in mind is tempo because that could, if not will play an important part in the beat is formed for example 16th note kicks @ 100 bpm would take the same length of time as 8th note kicks 200bpm however, visually the 16th note kicks would take up 1 measure whereas the 8th notes would take up 2 measures but still equal the same length of time in a strange sense?

I hope this helps man, I'm sure someone will no doubt pull me up about the last paragraph but i hope i'm right in what i've just said haha. Best of luck sir

 

[DuncanPlaysGuitar]

I do a similar thing. When I'm writing I usually tab out the guitar parts for the song, and add drums afterwards. I think the best idea is probably to listen to some music in whatever style you're writing and focus on the drums. With programmed drums you don't have to be able to come close to playing what the drummers play, but if you can follow what they are doing it is really helpful.

 

[Pezshreds]

+1 to this
It really comes down to what fits the song. Sometimes I write songs with hectic blasts and really fast rolls for 12 bars, but then in other parts where the guitar needs to shine more the drums may potentially go 8 bars without a roll at all.
Just do what you feel best

 

[gamber]

hey bro, have your kick follow your guitar, snare on beats 2 and 4 thats an easy way to get started and take it from there

 

[CircuitalPlacidity]

I posted this in another thread:

In my experience one of the best things you can do is have interesting patterns. That obviously helps in adding to the realism. Another thing that I do is to program out the part and if it's super complex, simplify just until it doesn't sound like its missing anything. This is easier said than done and is an art itself. As far as humanizing goes really pay attention to velocities on cymbals and fills. On fills also be aware of the timing on some of them. Even Thomas Lang doesn't play dead on the beat on all of his fast fills. Also, if you vary the parts a little it gives a more realistic feel. Say you have a riff that repeats later in the song, don't just copy and paste. Keep the same feel (or completely change it up) but don't use the exact same pattern. Like if you have crashes on the quarter notes, snare on 3 and double bass rolling on the 16ths under a riff and it repeats twice ending in a fill, when it comes back around maybe have double bass go to 8ths, china on 1 & 3, and share on 3 just for some variation and end in a different fill. Of course those beats are very basic examples but most drummers play with that kinda stuff a lot. My drummer never really plays the same thing twice unless I ask him to but he always manages to keep the same feel we're after. If you pm me your email I can send you some examples of programmed midi drums that I have done to better explain what im talking about. Also, don't be afraid to use space. Sometimes less is more when it comes to percussion.

 

[goldsteinat0r]

hey bro, have your kick follow your guitar, snare on beats 2 and 4 thats an easy way to get started and take it from there

This is basically how periphery happened, I think. Listening to Bulb's old demos it sounds like this was kind of what he did to make the more complicated stuff come together. Obviously I don't KNOW but it would make sense.

 

[Winspear]

This is basically how periphery happened, I think. Listening to Bulb's old demos it sounds like this was kind of what he did to make the more complicated stuff come together. Obviously I don't KNOW but it would make sense.

Yup he said it himself that he prefers weird stuff to have a solid groove. Meshuggah is just the same aside from a few bits here and there - syncopated riffs+kicks over 4/4 snare+cymbals. Easy to bang to!

 

[conjurer_of_riffs]

What I typically do is jam a riff out. The record it to a click or a drum loop. Then I'll try to find a better loop and if I can't, I will either start to program my own and tweak one from the plugin. To me the hardest part is the transitions into the next riff or part. I pretty much use the stock fills to do that.

 

[HateBear]

I'm a guitar player who wants to program drums in ez drummer/steve slate/addictive drums for recording purposes. Is there a formula you guys use use? like maybe every 4 grooves and a fill...w/occasional cymbal clash here or there? i'm a beginner at this... need some advice to improve programming drums.

THanks

If you're good at tapping out drum parts in general (tabletop, steering wheel, etc) I'd recommend getting something like a Korg Nanopad. I use this to first tap out and record the basic kick and snare groove. Quantize the notes to about 80% (you'll probably have to make some more serious adjustments depending on how accurate you are). After that, go back over and record in the cymbal hits and again with the quantizing and adjusting. Once you have those two parts down, you then can go in manually and edit in fills, accents, etc.

I find using this method in conjunction with quantizing at a percentage helps program with a more natural result. And always remember: Avoid snapping to the grid!

 

[HateBear]

Also, Another thing that helped me immensely: Study midi files from pro sources. If you download the toontrack Metalheadz EZkit, it comes with 9 or 10 complete meshuggah song midi files. If you analyze these, you'll notice that almost no midi notes are exactly on beat. They are always slightly before or after the beat, and usually occurring in waves. Very interesting stuff!

 

[Raysulircer]

This is basically how periphery happened, I think. Listening to Bulb's old demos it sounds like this was kind of what he did to make the more complicated stuff come together. Obviously I don't KNOW but it would make sense.

 

[Narrillnezzurh]

There's no formula, you've just gotta train yourself to think like a drummer. While not a particularly quick solution, I've found that playing Rock Band and air drumming have really helped me in this regard.

 

[GSingleton]

If it is midi drums via ezdrummer or sd, I double track them and add different effects and eqs on each track.

Like I will have the one main track, then have a track for the snare/toms, a track for the bass, and then a track for cymbals. It adds a fullness and realness to it. It just helps each individual part stand out.

 

[HubertCumberdale]

Well, What I did considering Im already a drummer is used my program of choice / budget, Acid Music Studio Pro 9, And Used a little pencil tool to write in the drums, It even has an option of Whole Notes all the way to 64th Notes to paint in with the Pencil tool so you don't mess up the timing. It's really handy.

 

[mongey]

I cheat

I have some riffs and a song idea I find a midi file close to what I want . record the guitar to it . then delete or add or mix some drums elements then re do the guitar to the midi if I need to