ENGL MOD!!!! (powerball content)

[JJ Rodriguez]

I use the crunch channel on my VHT with the gain on half, and I'm sure the Powerball has a shit ton more gain than my GP3 I could be wrong though.

 

[freakerman21]

Probably in channels 3 and 4. Also channel 2 has to much gain for a crunch...and that is what I want in channel 3. An also make channel 2.. a real crunch and no a "gentle heavy" how it was defined somewhere up the post.
Of course it depends on tha kind of music and instrument you play. I play some kind of "Korn like music". I use a 7620 with blaze custom but using 250k pots to reduce a little gain and treble.. and I got it.

www.myspace.com/freakwencymusica

 

[sith]

I use the crunch channel on my VHT with the gain on half, and I'm sure the Powerball has a shit ton more gain than my GP3 I could be wrong though.

not on the crunch channel..
I had similar problems.. I prefered crunch channel to lead channel (sound&feelwise), but it's a little short when it comes to amounts of gain, especially if you want usable clean channel at the same time ( gain knob is shared between clean&crunch).

I did some tube swaping... I bought 2x12AT7 and 2x12AU7 tubes and one balanced 12au7 for phase inventer...
results were pretty meh
Gain levels dropped significantly (a good thing IMO) so I hat to turn gain to 1-2 o clock (I was playing on 9 'o before),... Also there was a little of dynamics to be had this way (also a good thing IMO).
Tone also changed a little, but for the worse , change was not drastic, but I hated the thin tone I ended with...This mod also did't do much in a "cutting through mix" department

After several months of frustrations I selled the motherfucker and bought myself mesa mark IV..
never been happier...
I'm sorry I didn't sell powerball sooner, It's a cool amp If you are bedroom player,... good luck in a band situation
(p.s. I know how to eq)

The bottom line is,.. If you are not happy with this amp, no mod is going to make you love it. Maybe if you try with other brands of tubes ( i did with JJ's ) you might acomplish something or maybe try boosting crunch channel which I didn't do.

I'm not trying to bash this amp, but I had really love-hate relationship with it.
Tried in shop (WOW), read harmony-central reviews (WOW), bought it and enjoyed it at home,... at first band practise I couldn't be heard in the mix (not enough mids and volume for that matter) and than frustrations went on and on,....
Yeah I fell for the hype .

Sorry for lack of details, english is giving me hard time

 

[JJ Rodriguez]

Ah, didn't know it was shared EQ/gain with the clean channel. That makes a lot more sense now

 

[freakerman21]

Yeah. But I have read before some well results about the change in v2 and v4 (guitarno and LordovChaos). Actually I don't have that problem in the cut through the mix issue. It's just that I would like to improve channel 3 in some way (less gain, less compresion) and I take channel 2 as a model.

 

[sith]

Try it for yourself then, I heard some people were happy with results, I wasn't . I hope it works for you, at least it doesen't cost a lot to try it out.

In conclusion: gain reduction and some dynamics are achiveable

 

[freakerman21]

Thanks Sith, I think that is the improvement I want. Only I just wanted to know if channel 3 becomes closer, in some way, to channel 2.

 

[sith]

IMO no. That was what I was hoping for too. but still, don't take my word and try it yourself, maybe you will love what I hated

 

[Llabrewop]

Hello,

how promised here is the review of the powerball with 12at7 tubes:

I replaced the V4, 12AX7 (phasedriver) with a well balanced, selected TAD 12at7 and the V2 (gain and EQ) with a JJ 12at7.
The tonal change is amazing!!
There is A LOT more clarity and vitality in sound! The strong compression is nearly complete gone with simultaneously the same amount of gain as before (you have to rise the preamp-gain a little higher).
In clean-mode of channel1 almost no change is hearable, crunch-mode now is a 'true' crunch, and not 'gentle heavy' as before. It sounds much more vintage than before.
The difference between the two gain-modes of channel2 (often described with channel 3 and 4) now is bigger: low-gain mode (ch3) is much more classic-rock style than before, with more mid-punch and clarity. High gain mode (ch4) is fat and modern like before, but also with more clarity and much more tonal definition! In both modes in high-gain settings the high-freqency 'hiss' isn't anymore existent. Very congenial!
The eq of ch2 now is working a little bit different: higher treble settings now are possible without becoming harsh an shrill and the mid-control now seems to boost slightly higher mids than before.
But what is necessary to mention: even though all the changes the basic sound-character of the powerball is fully retained! It is a powerball like before with more cultured behavior. Now he is nearer to classic rock without leaving his modern-heavy attitude.
I play different guitars with different pickup combinations, moderate paf's, vintage singelcoils, Duncan Jeff-Beck and distortion models and the active, highgain Blackouts. And they all fit even more to the powerball now. Actually I would say the powerball is more versatile now. And when I change guitar I can leave all settings the same and it sounds good everytime!

Last but not least a very important thing for this forum (don't let us forget: this is a SEVENSTRING -FORUM):
My Schecter Diamond 7 with it's Duncan-Blackouts in my opinion was to heavy for that Amp before. The sound was too compressed and undifferentiated. It wasn't possible to decrease gain enough for more clarity.
Now the sound is GREAT! Every string can be heared at deep chords. And now there is VERY MUCH MORE low-frequency 'stomach-bump' at palm-mutes, not muddy and very precise.

This mod is also very cheap: I used a 'TAD 12AT7 / ECC81-Y Premium Selected (balanced)' for V4 (phasedriver)
and a balanced '12AT7 / ECC81 JJ Red Label (former TESLA)' for V2.
I paid under 30 EU incl. shipping.

In the future I'll try other tubes of differnt brands for tonal fine-tuning.
I'll let you know my experiences.

Greets, guitarno

I think this sounds like what I want to try on my Pball

Can someone confirm that the V1 and V3 remain the same? or will these need to be 12AT7's also I am new to all this tube switching shit.

Cheers.

 

[shogunate]

12at7s in the phase driver is always an improvement to my ears

I want to know more about this mod, and a PB with EL34s. Never knew it was a fixed bias amp, that sucks double for people wanting a more natural tone out of it Lets find the OP and get him back here with details

 

[AzzMan]

I don't know about all of this not cutting through business. My only experience in person with the Powerball was The Word Alive, whose guitarist ran a Les Paul Studio through a Powerball, and I don't really think it had any mods (I asked him about it vaguely). That thing cut through the mix like sound was butter. Other guitarist was using a 6505+ I believe.

 

[vanhendrix]

Hi folks,
by the way:
I've heard about a very simple and cheap possibility to get the PB much more dynamic and less compressed:
Some people change the V2 and the V4 preamp-tube from 12AX7 (ecc83) to 12AT7 (ecc81).
Because the 12AT's have less gain then the 12AX7 the powertubes won't be kicked as hard when used as phasedriver-tube (V4).
The gain of ch3+4 is build in the first circuit of V2. So when you change it to 12AT7 there'll be slightly less gain (the PB has too much anyway, above 12 o clock settings are not useable to me) and less kicking the following electronics. It's also imaginable to use here a 12AY7 (fewer gain).

I also heard about using 'ecc832 /12dw7' as V1 and V2.
Those tubes are one half an ecc83 and the other half an ecc82. However the gainreduction in ch3+4 is more drastic. Supposedly tone will change to classic-rock.

I just ordered some 12at7's for a test (as phasedriver (V4) a well balanced tube), and will give a review when I checked them out.

Till then,

guitarno

Necrobump.

Can someone please tell me which preamp tubes are being discussed here? V1-V4 are the power tubes. V5-V8 are the preamp tubes. I'd link the PB manual, but that'd be a huge pain in the ass on my ipad right now.

 

[TimSE]

being a Powerball user myself, this is relevant to my interests

 

[Pedrojoca]

i also need some help here. i intend to put the tubes guitarno talked about.

So basically i intend to leave the preamp tubes like this:

V1- JJ ECC83S/12AX7 V2- JJ 12AT7/ECC81 V3- JJ ECC83S/12AX7 V4- JJ 12AT7/ECC81

Is this what i'm supposed to do to put it like he talked about?

I'm planning on ordering from eurotubes, from this list: https://ssl.eurotubes.com/cart/index.php?page=view_submenu&category_id=2

 

[vanhendrix]

I posted a snapshot of the PB2 tube layout from the manual in my other thread. Maybe it'll help:

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/gear-equipment/151203-options-changing-powerball-sound.html

Edit:

And can we please organize what we're talking about here, it's just confusing us more.

V1, V2, V3, V4 are the 6L6 power tubes

V5, V6, V7, V8 are the 12AX7 preamp tubes

 

[vanhendrix]

here's our answer boys, direct from the engl forum:

V5 - first(input) tube (gain stage 1 and 2)
V6 - second tube (gain stage 3 and 4)
V7 - FX loop send and return driver
V8 - PI power tube driver

Selected - selected for low noise
FQ(V1) selected (input tube) - selected for low noise and microphonics

Most of the ENGL amps use 4 gain stages for full gain which means they need 2 tubes (because every tube has 2 amplification "circuits" built in). V1(V5 in the PowerBall) is the input tube, it´s the tube you connect your guitar - it´s always used and the most important tube regarding the amount of gain the PB can have at the end of gain stage 4.

Cheers,
Robin

--------------

So therefore, to revoice my channel 3 and 4, I'm going to replace V6. And i might just try V5, to mess around with the clean and crunch sounds.

 

[Pedrojoca]

oh!!! btw... i have an ENGL PB II will changing the V6 and V8 tubes have the same effect as on the PBI or does it have any difference when it comes to gain amount?

 

[vanhendrix]

oh!!! btw... i have an ENGL PB II will changing the V6 and V8 tubes have the same effect as on the PBI or does it have any difference when it comes to gain amount?

I'd wager that they're the same. That screenshot i posted is the PB2 manual and the tubes seem to be arranged the same way.

So V5 and V6 control the channels, I'm gonna leave the other ones alone for sure.

 

[Ryan-ZenGtr-]

A while ago on this thread, someone mentioned using EL-34 power tubes with the Engl. I loved what EL-34's did for my Dual Rectifier... I'm CERTAIN it would make a significant difference to the PowerBall.

I'd reccomend Harma Cryo Valves.

I sold my Engl, which I bought for recording an album I was making, having traded a Mesa Stiletto (POS for my uses, thought it was going to be a JCM 800... ) The Engl was great, but with EL-34's.... that would really be something special!

I sold mine with no regrets as the sound hurt my teeth, it was wild and noisy and the faux 4 channel setup was not to my liking. Also preferred the "classic" sound of the Dual Rec. Also, amp is weighs a lot to carry.

It is something I would definitely try if I got another PowerBall (use EL-34's), which may happen as it's a great high gain amp. All my Line 6 tones use the PowerBall preset, since I got the real head 3 or 4 years ago.

 

[vanhendrix]

A while ago on this thread, someone mentioned using EL-34 power tubes with the Engl. I loved what EL-34's did for my Dual Rectifier... I'm CERTAIN it would make a significant difference to the PowerBall.

I'd reccomend Harma Cryo Valves.

I sold my Engl, which I bought for recording an album I was making, having traded a Mesa Stiletto (POS for my uses, thought it was going to be a JCM 800... ) The Engl was great, but with EL-34's.... that would really be something special!

I sold mine with no regrets as the sound hurt my teeth, it was wild and noisy and the faux 4 channel setup was not to my liking. Also preferred the "classic" sound of the Dual Rec. Also, amp is weighs a lot to carry.

It is something I would definitely try if I got another PowerBall (use EL-34's), which may happen as it's a great high gain amp. All my Line 6 tones use the PowerBall preset, since I got the real head 3 or 4 years ago.

That's a hefty mod for a fixed-bias amp. The tech would have to change some nonsense that I don't understand. But that will be my next mod if this preamp plan doesn't work. Watch this thread!

I'm doing this new thing where i try to mod my gear to do what I want, instead of just abandoning it and getting new stuff. Weird eh?