ENGL (Powerball) Tubing/Mods Thread

[will_shred]

can someone tell me what a fair price for a used powerball in good shape is? (doesn't need to be retubed, ect.)

or what a fair price of one in near mint condition is?

 

[vanhendrix]

but what tube was it?

The faulty one? Just one of the stock AX7s. I stuck one of the other stock ones I had lying around in there and I was back in business.

 

[Pedrojoca]

can someone tell me what a fair price for a used powerball in good shape is? (doesn't need to be retubed, ect.)

or what a fair price of one in near mint condition is?

EDIT: In europe, 900-1000 bucks is a really cool deal
In the states, i'd say around 1600

 

[Chuckzoor]

The TAD 12at7 in v6 is a gorgeous change , You will not be disapointed !!
I'm playing progressive (djenty) stuff and this mods brings me CLARITY, which is very important for my tone !!!
However, i want to know with which models I can replace the 3 others 12ax7!

 

[spaghettipomodoro]

can someone tell me what a fair price for a used powerball in good shape is? (doesn't need to be retubed, ect.)

or what a fair price of one in near mint condition is?

Powerball 1 or 2?

I sold my PB 1 V2 for 1250 with a controller being previously retubed... though that was to a close friend of mine as a gift of sorts. ;P

 

[Pedrojoca]

The TAD 12at7 in v6 is a gorgeous change , You will not be disapointed !!
I'm playing progressive (djenty) stuff and this mods brings me CLARITY, which is very important for my tone !!!
However, i want to know with which models I can replace the 3 others 12ax7!

Don't replace the other ones, you're better off with them being 12ax7. We've tested this extensively. If you would like to further enhance the amp after adding the 12at7 in V6, replace the power tubes. Some people have had great results with mesa 6L6GC.

 

[Mikeyprs]

Well...boys and girls! I've finally pulled the trigger on a JJ 12AT7 tube for the V6 spot... just gotta wait for it to arrive then i shall fight my way into the powerball and attempt to pop her in the v6 slot n see what happens! =)

 

[Mikeyprs]

Powerball V1 with a JJ 12AT7 in the v6 = f***ing amazing! I love the tonal difference i'm getting out of the amp now, the cleans are alot cleaner and warmer, the crunch is better but not brilliant imo, but the two gain channels 3 & 4 sound superb to me! I've recorded some before and after riffs on the other computer where you can hear quite a noticeable difference, I used ola englund's settings that he dialled in for the test. SM57 pointed on axis, where the cap meets the cone (for the recording nerds).

i've since dialled in the settings suggestions by someone here for the 12AT7 in the amp, with a couple tweaks to taste and i gotta say, i can't wait to play this thing live, or even in the practise space haha

 

[trikmorgan]

Hi folks. I need help! I have read the entire thread. Great info and may I say it is heart warming to see a community working together for better results. Really, too much crap in the world and just glimmers of kindness like this really hold my head above water since things have been rather down in my world. Anyway,

I have an ENGL PB, V1 I believe. I bought it used and can't remember how long the previous owner had it but I can say that none of the tubes had been changed for about 8 years! (all stock apart from one preamp tube I swapped that was faulty). Now, after doing the research (24 hours straight!) on how important tubes are to the sound and even "feel" of the amp (or responsiveness) I decided it was well overdue. I had been having some issues that I hope the change will at least minimise as well as revitalise.

So I took the stock tubes out and put in a matched quad 6l6GC JJ's, and in the preamp;
1 (v5) - JJ ECC83/ECC83S
2 (v6) - TAD 12AX7A-C
3 (v7) - JJ ECC83/ECC83S
4 (v8) - HARMA ECC83-STR BALANCED

ALL tubes are cryogenically treated and apparently were tested before and after and rated for quality.

The amp hasn't been biased so I intend to do this (with my dads help as he is an electronics engineer and I am not!) but I'm half suspecting that the bias is cold. I have seen mention of this a few times with regard to the ENGL PB and I also feel like the amp should "give more" as I'm cranking it during testing and not really getting great oomph from it (great technical terms here i know :/...) BUT I understand that it shouldn't absolutely need to be re-biased since the tubes should match the safe operating of the PB. I will optimise it though soon.

So, here's the thing. I plugged in, switched the amp on, left it in standby for 10m (while my body tingled with anticipation), then I flipped the standby switch and left it another 5m with volume at 0. First thing, no sound :/. As it turns out, the first pre-amp tube hadn't seated properly, i simply jiggled it a little and switched back on and hey presto. (a little worried that the tube socket may be a little dodgy but...it seems ok for the moment).

The MAIN issue now is.....it sounds terrible!!! I've lost all the bite. The mids are massive (in a bad way) drowning the sound into a mushy mess. I can't say much about the high gain channels as after 11-12O'clock its just a mess. I think it gets even more messy cranking the gain further as expected but it really is hard to tell. The high mids that give you the bite have all but gone and I can crank both the presence AND treble up on all channels and none of them bother my ears where as they should be ear drum piercing squeels from hell with that EQ setting!! I'm thinking I have maybe chosen a set of tubes that ALL roll of high ends to "smooth" them out and basically it's become saturated in the mids and lows. I also tried a couple of preamp combinations leaving the 4th (v8) tube as this is a balanced tube. I also swapped the 1st (v5) tube for a tung-sol 12AX7 but I couldn't tell if there was much improvement, either way it still sounded crap! Can anyone help? Similar experiences? Suggestions?

I was soooo looking forward to this and now I'm worried I may have to fork out for even more tubes and I have very little money :'(.

Thank you all in advance and again great thread!

BTW, this is my first post on any forum...ever!

 

[Pedrojoca]

Hi folks. I need help! I have read the entire thread. Great info and may I say it is heart warming to see a community working together for better results. Really, too much crap in the world and just glimmers of kindness like this really hold my head above water since things have been rather down in my world. Anyway,

Well, you definetly should try biasing, but the presence+treble to the max part really leads me to believe that just biasing will make much of a difference. I suggest you get the combination we tried here. Although I am hesitant to point out the problem since you're basically in an all 12ax7 preamp. It should sound fine. I'd point to the power tubes, as the main culpirit, but since you don't have the possibility of buying new stuff, try the following:

Did the power tubes come in matched pairs? If they did, there should be a pair on V1-V2 and another in V3-V4, if you don't remember it, switch them up and see if it solves the problem.

Mix the preamp tubes (except for the balanced one) and see what difference it makes. (That balanced one might aswell be the problem since I remember testing mine with a crappy tube on that slot and it was horrid.)

Check your fx loop, it may not be on Dry mode (0%), who knows.

Next time you should research before retubing mate

 

[vanhendrix]

That is a dilly of a pickle. As always, check the mid open/focused button. That one always seems to move of its own accord and is the first thing I check if my sound isn't happening.

Second, it sounds to me like what you're describing could be the result of an underperforming v5 (first) preamp tube. I want to say that it seems like you're trying to make the amp compensate for a bunch of signal loss on the front end, which is making the rest of it squish down.

Worth a shot?

 

[trikmorgan]

to Pedrojoca:

Thanks for the quick reply!
I did in fact do the research. That 24 hour stretch of reading up on tubes was leading up to buying new ones. The FX loop is indeed all the way dry. The power tubes came as a "matched quad" so it shouldn't matter what order they go in BUT I intend to switch em around a little just on the odd chance something isn't right there. I actually was trying to buy tubes based on your results here but gettin the exact set would have been very costly for me so I had to make some compromise. I felt that they should have given me a similar result though and certainly not turn out like this! :/.

to Vanhendrix:

Thanks to you also for the quick response!
I have already swapped the preamp tubes around just to see if they had different results but not much between them. Then I swapped the v5 (1st) tube with a new tung-sol 12AX7 I had spare from a while ago and it didn't seem to change things.
I also tried the mid open/focus with various EQ settings and volume levels etc, thanks for the suggestions!

Here's what I plan to do after which I will post again to give my results:
1) change the v8 (4th tube - phase inverter) with a regular preamp tube, simply as an experiment, maybe that tube isn't functioning properly etc.
2) Mess around with the power tube order. Again they are a matched quad and so should work in any position but I will listen for any changes.
3) Swap the old tubes back in. This could take a while. What I will do is try the old power tubes (maybe 2 of them in 1 & 4 then switch them around to 2 & 3 to check for faulty new tubes) then an old preamp tube (one of them) testing each position for a faulty tube also playing with the tube order.
4) Re-bias the amp!! The only reason this isn't number 1 on the list is we are waiting for an adapter that we need to check and set the bias. My dad even spoke of placing an adjustable pot on the back of the amp so that I can freely adjust and experiment. This means setting a minimum and max value inside the safe zone e.g. min = 40% max = 85% or something along those lines. Once rebiased, unless the amp springs to life and problem is solved I will go through the same testing and swapping I did before the re-biasing.

Any more suggestions or anyone with similar experiences etc, keep posting!

Many thanks!!!!!!!

 

[vanhendrix]

to Pedrojoca:

Thanks for the quick reply!
I did in fact do the research. That 24 hour stretch of reading up on tubes was leading up to buying new ones. The FX loop is indeed all the way dry. The power tubes came as a "matched quad" so it shouldn't matter what order they go in BUT I intend to switch em around a little just on the odd chance something isn't right there. I actually was trying to buy tubes based on your results here but gettin the exact set would have been very costly for me so I had to make some compromise. I felt that they should have given me a similar result though and certainly not turn out like this! :/.

to Vanhendrix:

Thanks to you also for the quick response!
I have already swapped the preamp tubes around just to see if they had different results but not much between them. Then I swapped the v5 (1st) tube with a new tung-sol 12AX7 I had spare from a while ago and it didn't seem to change things.
I also tried the mid open/focus with various EQ settings and volume levels etc, thanks for the suggestions!

Here's what I plan to do after which I will post again to give my results:
1) change the v8 (4th tube - phase inverter) with a regular preamp tube, simply as an experiment, maybe that tube isn't functioning properly etc.
2) Mess around with the power tube order. Again they are a matched quad and so should work in any position but I will listen for any changes.
3) Swap the old tubes back in. This could take a while. What I will do is try the old power tubes (maybe 2 of them in 1 & 4 then switch them around to 2 & 3 to check for faulty new tubes) then an old preamp tube (one of them) testing each position for a faulty tube also playing with the tube order.
4) Re-bias the amp!! The only reason this isn't number 1 on the list is we are waiting for an adapter that we need to check and set the bias. My dad even spoke of placing an adjustable pot on the back of the amp so that I can freely adjust and experiment. This means setting a minimum and max value inside the safe zone e.g. min = 40% max = 85% or something along those lines. Once rebiased, unless the amp springs to life and problem is solved I will go through the same testing and swapping I did before the re-biasing.

Any more suggestions or anyone with similar experiences etc, keep posting!

Many thanks!!!!!!!

Well if there's a problem with the power tubes then they would almost certainly be shut down by the failsafe system on the front. I'd say focus on the preamp tubes for sure. I run all regular mesa ax7s in mine (includind the phase inverter) except for the V6 of course, and I have no issues.

Another thing that could cause this weirdness is if your amp isn't getting enough power to begin with. One time I jammed with mine in an area of questionable power (the basement of a strip club...yeah) and things were totally weird until the power conditioner came to save the day. Now I never leave home without it.

 

[trikmorgan]

Well....sad development I'm afraid :'(. I tried various things (see list above). Still haven't got the adapter to make the bias probe but after going through several avenues I resorted to putting all the old tubes back in the way it was before any changes...
I have expressed the lack of life now coming from the amp, lack of volume, lack of hugh end etc. With the old tubes back in it seems to have changed nothing. I think this can only mean that since removing the amp head from it's enclosure something has happened rendering the amp lifeless. Can you guys help at all??? It basically operates as I have said, lack of volume: It should "kick in" at around 8:30-9:00 o'clock and become uncomfortable for the ear in a smallish room at around 11-1 o'clock (approaching gig volume) and I can crank it to full and almost be able to talk over it with a loud voice...
Missing high end: The bite has gone and again I can crank the treble AND presence all the way up full and only just be reaching a point where high mids and treble are affecting tone whereas they should be glass shatteringly painful tones.
Please, are there any forums, any amp techs out there that may recognise the symptoms and be able to tell me what has most likely happened?

I would LOVE to take it to a qualified tech and have it serviced but I'm barely buying food! Please, any help, advice, etc I will be ever grateful and of course share the findings/results here.

 

[1b4n3z]

Power tube going out might take the screen resistor (or resistors) with it, which just might cause the problems mentioned here. If there were several dysfunctional resistors you might only be running one or two power tubes and I highly doubt the A/B class operation works all that great then

 

[Mikeyprs]

"If there are four power tubes they are often in matched pairs - inner pair, and outer pair. Replace the inner pair, then the outer pair, rather than go left-to-right." -Micky Z

This quote was taken from a website called Guitarhow.com specifically from a section called basic tube amp maintenance (a quick google search should suffice if you wish to check this out for yourself).

It also kinda rings true for me as I recently learnt something like this from a facebook group page called Guitar Nerds when they were talking about power tubes and stuff. it's also useful knowledge for me too when i can afford to change the power tubes in my Powerball V1.

All i did to put in a 12at7 in the v6 was undo the back and carefully reach my arm in (of course i used a clean, dry cloth for handling the tube with) and gently pull the old tube out in a circular motion and then line up the pins carefully and gently push the new one in again in a circular motion and bobs your uncle fanny's your aunt i've changed a preamp tube woohoo!

So i don't know how or why you needed to pull the amp from it's chassis trik =/

 

[trikmorgan]

@ Mikeyprs:
Thanks for your post dude! . I had to take out the amp from the enclosure to bias the amp and it makes cleaning sockets, swapping tubes and any other servicing...well...possible lol.


OK guys, its been a while but basically, there were a few problems.
1) I had an intermittent connection, couldn't see which solder joint was bad (on the v4 socket) but I re-soldered all pins and that seems to have solved that.
2) I also RE-RE-RE cleaned and scraped the tube socket pin gripes and tightened them to ensure good connection which helped with the preamp tubes. The first preamp tube (v5) is a little temperamental but seems ok for the moment after cleaning/tightening. If it is still problematic I'll swap the socket.
3) ...it's a little embarrassing but in the interest of knowledge for whom it might help; I make my own cables ya see, now, for the most part (here's my best tony the tiger impression) THHEEEEEEEEY'RE GREAT!.....BUT just out of curiosity I used a multimeter on all the cables I was using and found that there was some resistance across some of them. This was weird, I thought they either worked, didn't work or cut in and out from a dodgy connection. I re-checked connections and checked any pressure points e.g. in the right angle plugs where the wires run through the right angle and all is well with the cables now, completely open circuit which basically solved the REMAINING volume issue.
5) Amp was ok for the most part and I'm playing away for about....3 hours. Anyway, I switch the standby and decide to let it cool before switching off when I noticed that the filament in v8 was not glowing and the tube was stone cold :S, somehow I was running on 3 tubes. The tube failure circuit didn't light the warning LED so...not sure what was happening there. With some persuation (wiggling etc) the filament would light and the tube would warm but after 10 mins playing it would be off again. Suspecting the tube socket that I'd re-soldered I swapped the tube to another position and to my surprise it did the same in the other position so, I sent the tube back and after 2 weeks I finally have the new one, plugged in, warmed, played for 10 mins, no problems and the amp has plenty of life again so....I think problem (or more accurately, problems) solved!.

Now...it could just be me but since I took the head out of the enclosure I'm pretty sure there is more mechanical rattle than usual (if there was any to start with, I'm not sure) and some "fizz" for lack of better description from the cab. No it isn't crossover distortion, the amp is properly biased for good headroom but not particularly cold. The rattle sounds like its coming from the input transformer (possibly also the output transformer). Could this have happened while trying the get the amp head out? It was stuck in there pretty good!! so....I'm startin to think I'm just lookin for trouble now :S

Cheers guys! Sorry for the essay, thanks for reading and for any and all of your help!! I am humbled.

Keep posting

 

[Stooly]

trik,
I had some of the same symptoms as you on a Powerball that I bought on Ebay for $830 . It was fine for the first 3 days I had it but it cut off at practice to half volume. I wasn't worried since I already had tubes on the way and assumed that the tubes were the culprit.
After I started the tube swap, I noticed the really loose preamp tube sockets (shorting) and even a couple of solder joints on the PCB that looked suspect. I resoldered those, cleaned with De-oxit and tightened the preamp tube pin holders. Now all is well with full power and no more loose, shorting sockets! It seems this may be a common problem with these amps.....always tighten the pin holders within the sockets and clean with De-oxit....check!
On another note, I tried a JJ 12AT7 in the V6 position and at first glance it didn't seem to make difference because the JJ 12AX7 I had in first I had to turn the gain to 1 o'clock to get enough gain.....which seems a bit strange since I was running at about 10:30 before the swap. Bias is at 31mA.....

 

[Stooly]

Update: The lower gain turned out to be a nearly dead battery in my guitar After the battery change the 12AT7 tube in V6 made a huge tone difference. More clarity and the sizzle is a lot less pronounced. It also seems to have tightened the bottom end up. Thanks for the information and the time you guys put in testing....

 

[Pedrojoca]

Update: The lower gain turned out to be a nearly dead battery in my guitar After the battery change the 12AT7 tube in V6 made a huge tone difference. More clarity and the sizzle is a lot less pronounced. It also seems to have tightened the bottom end up. Thanks for the information and the time you guys put in testing....

you're welcome glad you enjoyed it