EQing vs Replacing Pickups

[gclef]

Pickups are more than the sum of their parts.

They affect feel and sound.

They can be amp and guitar dependent.

I'm a dimarzio humbucker fan. I can always find what I need from them.

How I choose my pickups (and I usually nail it first or 2nd time):

1 I play the guitar unplugged tobsee what it's missing. Mids? Lacking bass? Very thin? Too middy? Etc.

2. How is the attack envelope? Is it stiff and immediate responding? Or kinda tame and elesticy?

3. I choose the power range I want

4. I look for pickups that either balance or accentuate what I want from the guitar. Feel and how harmonically "alive" a pickup is, is super important.

5 I install and adjust them. If this goes well, I tweak amp or pedal eq to suit.

The one thing you can't adjust is how the pickup feels.
A good example is duncan full shreds. I got them for my rg921, a balanced but bright guitar with a faster attack unplugged. I hated them. The FS set accentuated those traits.
However, in my thicker sounding rg520qs with its mellower attack, they were absolutely amazing. Here, I added some bass at the amp to give the bridge a bit more bottom end thickness. This was my favorite application of them.

I just started using a 10 band eq in my gx100 patches. It's great to have versatility.

So, I guess I can say the guitar/pickup combo sets the base eq range or pattern for your rig, your eq tweaks that base curve, the adjustments set relative volumes and feel.

How well a pickup picks up harmonics is the only thing you really have no control over. They either have that or they don't.

 

[odibrom]

Pickups are more than the sum of their parts.

They affect feel and sound.

They can be amp and guitar dependent.

I'm a dimarzio humbucker fan. I can always find what I need from them.

How I choose my pickups (and I usually nail it first or 2nd time):

1 I play the guitar unplugged tobsee what it's missing. Mids? Lacking bass? Very thin? Too middy? Etc.

2. How is the attack envelope? Is it stiff and immediate responding? Or kinda tame and elesticy?

3. I choose the power range I want

4. I look for pickups that either balance or accentuate what I want from the guitar. Feel and how harmonically "alive" a pickup is, is super important.

5 I install and adjust them. If this goes well, I tweak amp or pedal eq to suit.

The one thing you can't adjust is how the pickup feels.
A good example is duncan full shreds. I got them for my rg921, a balanced but bright guitar with a faster attack unplugged. I hated them. The FS set accentuated those traits.
However, in my thicker sounding rg520qs with its mellower attack, they were absolutely amazing. Here, I added some bass at the amp to give the bridge a bit more bottom end thickness. This was my favorite application of them.

I just started using a 10 band eq in my gx100 patches. It's great to have versatility.

So, I guess I can say the guitar/pickup combo sets the base eq range or pattern for your rig, your eq tweaks that base curve, the adjustments set relative volumes and feel.

How well a pickup picks up harmonics is the only thing you really have no control over. They either have that or they don't.

Although your method has provided you with joy and results, it's dependent on what and how the pickups specs are displayed by the brand and eventually even by the marketing BS the brands put out to sell their pickups. Some manufacturers aren't that specific or assertive in this matter... and you're forgetting 2 important ingredients that have a HUGE influence on how a pickup sounds: the STRINGS' quality (chemical formula and gauge) and the POTENTIOMETERS... Potentiometers are responsible for many uninformed guitar players to love and hate (this is a bit over the top, but it's only to get my point across) 2 identical guitars with the exact same setup. Pots can close or open a guitar sound a lot. Higher value pots let more high end signal pass through

 

[Dayn]

Given how much tone is shaped after the pickup, I think something good enough that gets the job mostly done and picks up all the sound character you want is suitable.

I used to be all-in on getting as flat a response as possible to shape it from there, but now that I have plenty of different guitars all with different pickups, I just run them through the same tone settings. Just plug-and-play. All similar sounds, slightly different character that doesn't matter in a mix anyway.

 

[Edika]

Although your method has provided you with joy and results, it's dependent on what and how the pickups specs are displayed by the brand and eventually even by the marketing BS the brands put out to sell their pickups. Some manufacturers aren't that specific or assertive in this matter... and you're forgetting 2 important ingredients that have a HUGE influence on how a pickup sounds: the STRINGS' quality (chemical formula and gauge) and the POTENTIOMETERS... Potentiometers are responsible for many uninformed guitar players to love and hate (this is a bit over the top, but it's only to get my point across) 2 identical guitars with the exact same setup. Pots can close or open a guitar sound a lot. Higher value pots let more high end signal pass through

While I don't disagree with this statement that would apply if values are drastically different than advertised. Guitars that sounded dull and bassy, I've tried different pots I measured and was sure where 500K, different cap values that I measured and sure where correct. Even swapped the bridge to double check. That had little to no effect. I tried a 1M pot on one of my instruments and it improved the sound just a bit, in terms of high frequency. I had more of an impact from pickup swaps.

But even that doesn't change the core sound of the instrument as drastically as a lot of people claim. I had EMG's in a couple guitars and they don't sound identical, as I've read all over the place. Yes, there's an EMG sound going on bit there's variations. I've had sets of the same pickup in various guitars with the same tuning and strings and the result was quite different. Sure, if you're recording you can edit the sound as much as you want to make the end result sound one way or the other and might justify the cost of swapping pickups, but the play and feel is important to inspire you to perform at your best.

 

[lurè]

I've always found that eq after pickups works best when is subtractive.

If you like your pickups but has a tiny bit too much low end, you can always tame It later.

If your pickups are stiff, too much compressed, lack clarity and so on, it's really hard to adjust later and most of the time not worth the hassle.

 

[l1ll1]

What I learned the hard way doing live sound for years:
The earlier in a chain you get the signal you want, the better.
So if a singer or player is great. Awesome. Then if the instrument suits the music: Perfect. Etc.
The earlier you catch a "mistake" or "misalignment" of gear and desired outcome, the better.

 

[lattjeful]

What I learned the hard way doing live sound for years:
The earlier in a chain you get the signal you want, the better.
So if a singer or player is great. Awesome. Then if the instrument suits the music: Perfect. Etc.
The earlier you catch a "mistake" or "misalignment" of gear and desired outcome, the better.

This. While I'm of the mind that you can get any sound out of any pickup with enough EQ and work, a pickup you like is going to matter a ton for both how it feels to play and how much work it takes to get to the tone you want. In an ideal world a sound guy would turn my guitar up and just go "Oh there he is, great," and a pickup that is most of the way there in terms of what I want means less work and less messing around.

There's a great quote in this episode of That Pedal Show with Andy Wood where he says "Why not fix it in pre?" Getting it right at the source of the tone is the key and it makes things a hell of a lot easier for you and the sound guy.

 

[lurè]

Also if you like how a pickup feels, 99% of the times you like how it sounds, thus minimal eq is required.

 

[Moongrum]

Given how much tone is shaped after the pickup, I think something good enough that gets the job mostly done and picks up all the sound character you want is suitable.

I used to be all-in on getting as flat a response as possible to shape it from there, but now that I have plenty of different guitars all with different pickups, I just run them through the same tone settings. Just plug-and-play. All similar sounds, slightly different character that doesn't matter in a mix anyway.

This is kind of where I'm at, too. As long as the pickups aren't polar extremes (like a single coil vs a high output humbucker), it's all just guitar noise in the end.

 

[Screamingdaisy]

Garbage in = garbage out.

 

[Rev2010]

There are certain tonal differences (harmonics and such) that can't simply be EQ'd in/out. For example, the difference between ceramic and alnico pickups. I'm a total alnico fan, I hate the colder metallic shrill of ceramics even though I'm a total metal head and most metal guitarists seem to prefer them. But ceramics have the certain clang sound when palm muting whilst alnico pickups have a warmer smoother more full bodied thumpy palm mute without that metallic scraping twang sound.

Each amp also has different gain/tone. In the end though, you can show up to a gig and still play your songs on a Marshall or an Orange even though you primarily play through a Dual Rec, just won't sound exactly as you want it.

 

[gh0styboi]

Pickups are pretty important, imo. As far as when I know I need to swap them out, I've been playing long enough now that I can tell pretty quickly if they agree with me or not, but in the beginning, I swapped them if I had to do too much tweaking on an amp or plug-in for me to like the sound. If I can't put everything at noon and enjoy the sound of the amp when it's an amp I know I like, then the pickups need swapping.

The biggest things I look for in a pickup are a) how pronounced the mids are and b) how much output they have. The rest of their independent value for me is how they feel when I play. I don't like really high output pickups in general - I'd rather add some oomph through the amp or OD than have a permanent push in my pickups, so I tend to favor mid output pickups when it comes to humbuckers.

It also depends on the tuning I'm using on the guitar I'm intending to put them in.

I tend to prefer P90s or actives for anything A1 or under, with the Seymour Duncan Pegasus being the only exception. The highest tuning I play is C1, so for anything Bb to C, I really, REALLY like the Seymour Duncan Black Winters, though I've been digging the Railhammer Neuvo 90 I put in my Strat recently.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

I've always found that eq after pickups works best when is subtractive.

Yes - this is a big factor in me favouring bright pickups.

If you like your pickups but has a tiny bit too much low end, you can always tame It later.

Yes, but a lot of the pickups with too much low end also have a (relatively) rolled off high end.

If your pickups are stiff, too much compressed, lack clarity and so on, it's really hard to adjust later and most of the time not worth the hassle.

Again, yes!

 

[Neon_Knight_]

I can't find mid powered passive pickups in 7 string size in the DiMarzio catalogue, loaded with AlNiCo 5 magnet, there simply isn't any.

Does DiMarzio make any 7-string pickups at all with AlNiCo 5 magnets. I've always thought (without checking) that 100% of them are ceramic.

Ignoring the ceramic magnets (which I know is a dealbreaker for you), Imperium and Occult are probably the only 7-string DiMarzio bridge models that I consider to be medium output. I'm guessing you were all set with your customs long before Occult was released, but did you ever try Imperium?

 

[odibrom]

Does DiMarzio make any 7-string pickups at all with AlNiCo 5 magnets. I've always thought (without checking) that 100% of them are ceramic.

Ignoring the ceramic magnets (which I know is a dealbreaker for you), Imperium and Occult are probably the only 7-string DiMarzio bridge models that I consider to be medium output. I'm guessing you were all set with your customs long before Occult was released, but did you ever try Imperium?

I started as a DiMarzio fan boy by 2003/4 with a set of Blaze Neck and Blaze Custom (still have those in a drawer). I tried a few other, the Air Norton 7 (have one in the bridge of my fretless), D-Sonic, Evo7, a set of D-Activators (didn't like these, way too much output, like they're barking all the time) and a set of Illuminators... this on the 7 string realm.

The Blaze set I mentioned above was my tone reference for more than 10 years, those were the pickups I compared all others to. Loved the Blaze Custom.

As far as I know, 7 DiMarzio stringers are all ceramic.

I tried the Illuminators against the customs I already had at the time and there was something in the high end that I didn't really like, kind of piercing, but again, I was already using 1Mega ohm pots, which let a lot more of high end pass through than 500k ones.

Since I went the custom way, I've sold all DiMarzios I had but the Blazes and the Air Norton 7 installed in the fretless' bridge position.

The ceramic magnet is not a deal breaker for me, but if I can choose, I'll chose not to use ceramic. I still use the original Blaze set in my UV (as a homage to it) and she rocks as much as any other. The thing is, under high gain, the pickups' specs tend to became diluted quite a bit sound wise... but for the player... I feel my custom wound pickups to be more dynamic than all the DiMarzios I've tested and I kind of like them this way, more so because those were bought new for a lower price than the off the shelf new DiMarzios and with my specs, which I've been able to change and test with time.

For the DiMarios mid output 7 stringers, I'd list all neck designed humbuckers and include the Paf7, but even so, they're not quite mid output... and answering to your question, no, I haven't tested the Occult pickup...