Ergonomics of widely fanned frets

[Xfing]

I've stumbled on Wes Lambe's webpage, where he sells custom 8 string guitars whose bottom 3 strings have bass tuners & pickups - anyway, the scale difference is 29''-25''. That's a 4'' fan.
How would that be in terms of ergonomics on a non-hybrid guitar? Wouldn't a hugely aggressive fan such as this seriously hamper playability? I'm asking because I honestly can't tell, haven't held a single fanned fret guitar in my hands in my entire life as of yet (sadly).

I'm also asking because of a vested interest in fanned-fret 9-string guitars - and if a 4'' fan weren't a problem, then having 30'' on the low C# and 26'' on the high E sounds like it would be pretty versatile and nifty. Definitely beats being all 30'' like my 9-stringer, super difficult to bend the high E string anything more than a half tone.

But yeah, how would one navigate the difference in fret distances, the slant of the frets towards the neck and similar considerations?

 

[Dayn]

My Ormsby 8-string is 25.5" to 28.3", so about 2.8". It's pretty large, but the neutral fret around the 9th keeps the lower frets from being difficult. That's on the verge of awkwardness, though. I think if it was going to be any larger of a fan, the neutral fret would need to be closer to the nut, otherwise your hand will be reaching over the nut for the lowest strings.

I also have an Agile 10-string which is 27" to 30". Technically it would be about 2.66" fan from first to eighth string. It's also fairly playable, down to the 10th string. The difference here is the longer scale lengths make the higher frets a bit difficult to navigate. The side dots don't line up with the higher strings, and there are no fret markers, so visually it can trip you up at times. You get used to it though.

But such a large fan is definitely extreme, and your higher frets will suffer for moving the neutral fret closer to the nut. But that should affect the higher frets on the lower strings more in order to make it easier closer to the nut, so the trade off might be worth it.

Alternatively - I don't bend on my 10-string. Get a different guitar for that.

 

[Gtan7]

People have all kinds of reactions to fans, mine are all standard 1.5 to 2" fans, they do make bar chords near the nut tough and like Dayn have trouble lining up fingers above 14 fret sometimes.
When i was investigating multiscales i just ordered some used from GC, returned them til i found a couple i liked, and ate the 1-way shipping. I figured $35 or so to rent a guitar for 45 days wasn't bad.

 

[OmegaSlayer]

I've stumbled on Wes Lambe's webpage, where he sells custom 8 string guitars whose bottom 3 strings have bass tuners & pickups - anyway, the scale difference is 29''-25''. That's a 4'' fan.
How would that be in terms of ergonomics on a non-hybrid guitar? Wouldn't a hugely aggressive fan such as this seriously hamper playability? I'm asking because I honestly can't tell, haven't held a single fanned fret guitar in my hands in my entire life as of yet (sadly).

I'm also asking because of a vested interest in fanned-fret 9-string guitars - and if a 4'' fan weren't a problem, then having 30'' on the low C# and 26'' on the high E sounds like it would be pretty versatile and nifty. Definitely beats being all 30'' like my 9-stringer, super difficult to bend the high E string anything more than a half tone.

But yeah, how would one navigate the difference in fret distances, the slant of the frets towards the neck and similar considerations?

The biggest I have is the 30-28.5 of my 9 string Legator and I feel it's ok, I'd say I could comfortably play a 30-27, maybe with a 30-26 some problems might start to surface.
The main point is that you'll almost never play cowboy chords on a 8+stringer, and that's where the majority of problem lies

 

[Winspear]

I had this for a 9 tuned low E to high Ab, 29.25-24.75. The nut was absolutely no issue for me - though at almost 45 degrees, in classical position this was just vertical. I could play low barre chords if I wanted. I can imagine the upper frets may be a concern for people used to certain arpeggios and such but I think a big thing for me was that I simply wrote and played on it what was natural and comfortable to do so. Barre chords would definitely be an issue up there if you use them. I'm not someone who has a repertoire of technical stuff they are used to playing and can test on a bunch of instruments, so my opinion on what is problematic or not may be skewed. Really the only slight problem area for me is the angle of the bridge itself as it does make moving palm muting around more of a challenge. I will say however I do prefer a more subtle fretboard, but as was my decision for that board, if it's what is needed for good tone and tension on the desired range then, well..

 

[odibrom]

... just saying...

 

[tom schelfaut]

My Ormsby Hypemachine has a 2" fan and it's borderline for me... I couldn't imagine how uncomfortable 4" would be...

 

[bostjan]

As you can see, it totally depends. Scale length is not the only variable affecting playability. I'd love a guitar with that scale you mentioned, but if there were compounding factors, it would potentially be a wreck

 

[Xfing]

... just saying...

Well, this here for example is Halo Octavia 9 string, it's got 30-28''. The fan doesn't look extremely aggressive just looking at it, at least in my opinion. 25,5'' is probably best for the high E if you want to bend it and be able to use thicker strings if you'd like, but a 30-25,5'' fan sounds like it'd be downright impossible.
I think 30'' is the bare minimum for 9-stringers - and even then, I have to use a .108 or something like that, even at that scale length - for the string not to be too floppy and be tremolo-able.


I think Halo have done a similar model, but with 10 strings, and a 32-28'' fan. In that one, the frets are way more slanted, and it gets more aggressive towards the bridge, just like in this one.
I think I would personally prefer an equal slant distribution, that is to say the straight fret would be the 12th. Probably the best option to start learning.

 

[Captain Shoggoth]

I have a 26-29" 8; I can make my way around it comfortably enough for rhythms but I'm a big lead player, & on that account I wouldn't personally do a fan bigger than 2" in future. You'll be able to acclimatise fine, my main guitar before that was a 24.75" 6-string, but YMMV long-term

 

[bostjan]

My Onis are 2" on 7 strings and 2.4" on 8 strings. Totally comfy and ergonomic to play. But, as I said before, and will say a thousand times again as necessary, the span of scale lengths is one variable in the ergonomics formula, and it's not even the most important one.

Why do you say 25.5" is best for the high E? What scale lengths have you tried? Were the guitars you tried with different scale lengths otherwise identical? If not, obviously, it is possible that the other factors could have contributed. How do you know 27" isn't better? How do you know 24.75" isn't better? How do you know 8π inches isn't better?!

 

[odibrom]

My Onis are 2" on 7 strings and 2.4" on 8 strings. Totally comfy and ergonomic to play. But, as I said before, and will say a thousand times again as necessary, the span of scale lengths is one variable in the ergonomics formula, and it's not even the most important one.

Why do you say 25.5" is best for the high E? What scale lengths have you tried? Were the guitars you tried with different scale lengths otherwise identical? If not, obviously, it is possible that the other factors could have contributed. How do you know 27" isn't better? How do you know 24.75" isn't better? How do you know 8π inches isn't better?!

... the perpendicular fret position is the trick to make those fans usable... right?

... and how about some photos, mister? humm?

 

[bostjan]

... the perpendicular fret position is the trick to make those fans usable... right?

... and how about some photos, mister? humm?

Did a NGD thread for each a decade and a half ago...

NGD! Bostjan's Custom Oni 8 (56K - Dead milkmen)

New Oni 8 String! Perpendicular fret = 9th Scale Length = 600-660 mm (oops) Width near nut ~ 57 mm Controls: Active Tone Filter Synth/Piezo Concentric Volume Synth Sound Select Magnetic Kill Switch Construction: Body and Neck: Sitka Spruce with Carbon Durashield Fretboard...

www.sevenstring.org

Pictures for the seven string don't seem to be up anymore, but Dan's photos on page two still work: https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/oni-seven-string.36973/

I've got more recent photos of the eight string in action, but it wouldn't be appropriate to spam the thread with those.