Finishing questions - Odie's oil, Osmo Polyx, Emmet's good stuff

[ADADAD]

Planning first Warmoth build, intend to use roasted maple neck and walnut body. Not interested in Warmoth's finishes in this case, going for a more "natural wood" thing.
Looking for a "can't fuck this up" kind of finish to use, and the three contenders that I found that are simple wipe on, wipe off finishes are Odie's oil, Osmo Polyx, and Emmet's good stuff.
The two former finishes are oil/wax finishes, the latter is a urethane gel. The pros/cons as far as I can tell:

-Emmet's: Supposedly, Fender/Jackson CS use Emmet's, and Suhr used to use it as well. While it is a wipe on, wipe off type of finish, I am inexperienced and generally bad ad DIY so this may not be quite fool-proof enough. Also redoing or repairing it would be a problem most likely. On the other hand, maintenance would be easier, and it would offer more protection.

-Odie's/Osmo: Less protective, more maintenance, but seemingly the easiest finishes to use. Can redo / touch up mistakes to your heart's content. More popular with hobbyists or one man operations, found no record of companies like the ones above using these types of finishes.

I'm interested to hear on people's experience with any of these, both application and how they hold up over time, and general advice on which of the two categories I should go with, based on me being an absolute newbie. If the oil/wax one, also on Odie's vs Osmo. There's not much info on Emmet's on forums, but with regards to the other two, there are many opinions, some claiming one is better and some that the other is better. Durability tests on Youtube and such anecdotes on forums are also pretty inconsistent.

Also on the topic Odie's/Osmo:
-Osmo recommends using 1101 "WOOD WAX FINISH CLEAR EXTRA THIN" before the polyx on dense/oily woods such as exotic woods and Walnut. How critical is this? also does this translate to Odie's (they also seem to have a thinner version)?
-Odie's also has their denser products "wood butter" and a wax, what's the purpose of those if the oil is already used? I saw some members here use these all on a single build, I am wondering what the benefit is of going oil -> butter -> wax vs. just oil (let's say 3 coats to make it similar)?
-Warmoth uses a sealer on unfinished pieces they ship out, would this conflict with these finishes?
-Warmoth sands everything to 220, would this work with these finishes? any reason to do additional sanding? I've read that going over a certain grit makes it harder for finishes to penetrate or adhere to the surface, wondering how relevant it is here

Not to put you on the spot, but I've seen you use/advocate for these finishes in my search through SSO, would love to hear your thoughts @KR250, @Purelojik, @Omzig, @DeanGordonGuitars
Thanks in advance!

Edit- I don't intend to fill the pores.

 

[LiveOVErdrive]

Fact check me on this, but I think I remember that the sealer warmoth uses is plain ol' shellac, which works under basically every finish. It's also my favorite finish on its own.

In terms of sanding, I would probably go up to 320 before applying more finish, but 220 is probably fine. If their sealer is, indeed shellac, and it is thick enough, you could probably just hit it with some 320 and then 400 and just have a really nice satiny feel without applying anything.

I'm not ignoring the finishes you named, I just don't know anything about them. Tru oil is another popular finish. Ironically it isn't an oil. Finish but a varnish mix. But it's pretty nice. I've also used Minwax wipe on satin poly before with good results. Easy to apply and leaves a nice satin finish.

Disclaimer: make sure to take proper precautions working with any oil based finish.

 

[spudmunkey]

Tru oil is another popular finish. Ironically it isn't an oil finish, but a varnish mix.

Same with most "tung oil" products sold at the big-box stores, like, say, Minwax Tung Oil Finish, which contains zero tung oil.

Keep in mind that Shellac, while it sticks to everything, is easily "reactivated" by alcohol, even when dry for years. The plus side is that outside of oil finishes, it's one of the easiest finish to repair..

 

[ADADAD]

Based on Warmoth's warranty not applying to unfinished bodies or necks (depending on wood type), I'm guessing the sealer isn't sufficient (?) which may be fine on roasted maple, but probably not walnut or other woods I may or may not use in future builds (this one is kind of a trial run).

Tru oil was what I was going to go with initially, but it seems to require many coats, sanding in between, etc., whereas the finishes I asked about require 1-2 coats. Some people do more, and I may do more depending on how it goes and if I see a need, but at least it isn't required. It may be the case that I can do no sanding, do one coat of Odie's oil (they claim only one coat is needed), and be done. Sounds very tempting to me. And if I choose to, I can revisit it down the line, sand it finer, do more coats, whatever.

As for minwax wipe on, I have used the satin before on the desk I'm sitting at now. There was an element of skill to it, took me a bit to figure it out, and it was 3 years ago so I'd have to relearn it. Also I didn't mind the desk not looking great as long as it was functional, for this I am aiming a bit higher.

I did do my due diligence, those do seem like the most trivial applications out there, minimal technique, minimal effort, and for the oil ones, virtually unlimited retries.

 

[col]

With Odies Oil you need to sand to a higher grit if you want any kind of gloss. I sanded up to 1200 and it's sort of satin gloss with that. Your choise of wood has a big impact as well, tighter grained woods will gloss up better.

Other than that, I was very happy on how quick and easy it was to do. Just wipe it on with a higher grit mirlon pad than what your last sanding grit was, a very thin coat is enough. Then wait an hour and buff off everything with a terry towel. Odie's has a good video about it on youtube.

 

[ADADAD]

With Odies Oil you need to sand to a higher grit if you want any kind of gloss. I sanded up to 1200 and it's sort of satin gloss with that. Your choise of wood has a big impact as well, tighter grained woods will gloss up better.

Other than that, I was very happy on how quick and easy it was to do. Just wipe it on with a higher grit mirlon pad than what your last sanding grit was, a very thin coat is enough. Then wait an hour and buff off everything with a terry towel. Odie's has a good video about it on youtube.

Thanks, I did see their videos, the simplicity is appealing. Did you stick with just one coat? did you just use their standard oil, no other products?
I'm not looking for a gloss, so I'll probably stick to Warmoth's 220 or maybe go up to 400ish, if there's any evidence that it would work better

 

[col]

Thanks, I did see their videos, the simplicity is appealing. Did you stick with just one coat? did you just use their standard oil, no other products?
I'm not looking for a gloss, so I'll probably stick to Warmoth's 220 or maybe go up to 400ish, if there's any evidence that it would work better

Yeah just the one coat without anything else. Worked great since I wanted to get playing. Done in 24hrs from start to finish. Compared to tru-oil this is lightning fast. And don't get started on nitro.

 

[StringPluckery]

Out of the three you mentioned, I have only used Osmo. It's super easy to apply and super easy to touch up. I have not used Osmo's 1101 on anything and it has not been an issue. Every piece of furniture, picture frame, wooden household doodad I have built in the last four years are all walnut and are all finished in Osmo products. It isn't super protective, but you won't get witness lines if you have to touch up an area. I've done a touch up in one spot on a dining table I've had for about two years now.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

Odie's is basically idiotproof ime. If you want a harder wearing finish then you can do a wax finish over their main formulation. It does slightly tint the wood, but the majority of oil based options do that ime.
Odie's is quite expensive for what it is though. You can achieve comparable results with beeswax and mineral oil for a fraction of the cost.

Here's a neck and a cutting board I finished with Odie's oil.

 

[Purelojik]

Hey bud thanks for the Tag!

I've used odies for over 7-8 years now and here and there I've used most if not all oil finishes on the market. Like @KnightBrolaire said its pretty much idiot proof.

Its correct that you'll have to sand higher to get a higher gloss but I also tell people to keep your expectations in check. I used to want a lacquer look but didn't want the fuss and equipment or skill to apply them so I thought I could get the look with tru oil. I was able to achieve this but its also why I'll never use tru oil in that way again. Its got a purpose but also my expectations were out of check. Recently my buddy Kris asked me to try it again and I may do that for things I need a bit more of a build/gloss on.

But back to odies. you really cant ask for an easier finish. for necks I sand to 800 and apply the oil or butter and then the wax, I used to do multiple coats but just been doing one or two now. I'll make sure to spend time on my end grain cause its thirsty. but yea its basically sand prep, then apply oil, let sit then buff off extra. then repeat or go to the wood butter or wax and then you're done. just buff off well.

All my guitars over the past 7 years have had this as a finish and everyone whos ended up getting them still say the finish looks great, some of the intense players rejuvenate the finish but most like the way it wears over the years as do I. To be honest I don't think there is a way you can mess up this finish and not get a pretty great result.

this is an old post that Odies reposted but it highlights the way it makes the wood pop. Sanded this I think to 600? or 800 and applied the oil, butter and wax. and it has a really deep chatoyance but still feels like wood. it doesn't protect from dents or anything but I tell everyone I'll just choose something I can repair easily or instruct someone how to repair and fix over having to refinish something all over again. If there are any questions please hit me up on IG : akm_guitarworks for a speedy reply!

 

[Omzig]

I've use the Osmo PolyX once a few years back (see the can on the desk)

To be honest it didn't turn out to be any more hard wearing than a standard danish oil finish, as i recall this was about 7 thin coats worth, also it takes about a month or so to fully cure out for final buffing




Im not to massive on the Oil'ed Raw look and feel for guitars...Glossy 2k clears al the way for me Osmo is nice for necks though.

 

[ADADAD]

<Text>

Thanks for the reply!
Couple of follow ups, I'll ask here over IG so that people can find this through google in the future-

Why use their butter/wax and not just the "base" oil product? what's the difference in the outcome and can it not be achieved using only the oil, for example by using more coats?

I don't really want a gloss, so probably won't need to go too high up with sanding. In this case, what grit would you suggest? Is there a significant difference in feel after applying the finish? Would Warmoth's 220 be fine or should I at least go up to 400? Also I do intend to get the neck fretted by them, so sanding the fretboard would be a bit more annoying. Is it fine that it would be sanded with the frets installed? which would mean it would be against the grain / parallel to the frets?

 

[KR250]

Not much to add here that hasn't already been said. I have a few guitars with Odies oil that I've kept for multiple years, one of the burl tops was pretty thirsty and about 2 years after initial finishing I felt like it needed another coat of oil. I do the same as @Purelojik with the sanding prep (usually apply some mineral spirits to look for any scratches), heavy first coat of oil, wipe off after 1-2 hours, repeat, then wait a day and apply the wood butter.

 

[Purelojik]

Thanks for the reply!
Couple of follow ups, I'll ask here over IG so that people can find this through google in the future-

Why use their butter/wax and not just the "base" oil product? what's the difference in the outcome and can it not be achieved using only the oil, for example by using more coats?

I don't really want a gloss, so probably won't need to go too high up with sanding. In this case, what grit would you suggest? Is there a significant difference in feel after applying the finish? Would Warmoth's 220 be fine or should I at least go up to 400? Also I do intend to get the neck fretted by them, so sanding the fretboard would be a bit more annoying. Is it fine that it would be sanded with the frets installed? which would mean it would be against the grain / parallel to the frets?

Each product has more wax in it, I've done small pieces with just the wax itself. but I feel the oil initially penetrates endgrain well and flows easy esp in punky woods like buckeye burl and redwood. I do one or two coats and then the butter which lays on thicker and seems to penetrate less. the wax is just for final sheen. but honestly you may be able to get away with just the oil and butter and then a hard floor wax if that's cheaper. you'll still get a great result. as for the sanding, i'd sand the body up to at least 400-600 to guarantee a great look, I've done on 400 and sometimes wish I went a touch higher. as for the neck back sand high to 600-800 and you'll love the feel. and for the fretboard you can just wipe on with some wax and be good tbh. i wouldn't sand the Fb with frets in at all. just oil , wax and buff. you wont go wrong.

 

[LiveOVErdrive]

What IS Odie's oil? Their site claims it crosslinks and contains no solvents. Is it like a non-chemically-boiled linseed oil?

 

[Purelojik]

What IS Odie's oil? Their site claims it crosslinks and contains no solvents. Is it like a non-chemically-boiled linseed oil?

no idea tbh, out of everything i've used its the best smelling haha. but yea I've got no idea

 

[LiveOVErdrive]

no idea tbh, out of everything i've used its the best smelling haha. but yea I've got no ide

I want to try it now.

I'm also curious if we're going to see people using rubeo monocoat on guitars the way everyone seems to use it in regular woodworking nowadays.

 

[Purelojik]

I want to try it now.

I'm also curious if we're going to see people using rubeo monocoat on guitars the way everyone seems to use it in regular woodworking nowadays.

I've seen this crazy online competition and dirt-slinging between proponents of all these companies over the past two or three years. doesn't look good on any of them really. I just say try everything and try a few different methods to find your own style and be happy. ITs just oil and wax after all. Everyone thinks that these finishes are gonna protect against something when its really just there to pop color and give some depth idgaf what any of the companies say. if you want protection, use some of the poly's or lacquers. if you want something easy to apply, easy to repair and something that looks great then go oil and wax.