For those who seek out rare/specific guitars: how much mods are too many?

[jco5055]

Hi guys,

For those that seek out specific, rare models: maybe stuff like various ESPs that are either now discontinued or certain years are coveted, original Ibby Universes, “golden era” bc rich etc, how much modification can be done before you would not consider buying?

I was looking at a rare ibanez, and one listing had an SS refret, pickup replacement, new pots, and a GOTOH 1996T instead of an Edge. Idk, to me anything more than repairing cosmetic damage and maybe the SS refret kind of feels like defeating the purpose of selling a rare guitar.

What say you?

 

[Hollowway]

For resale purposes? I’d say a true vintage should be completely left alone, or modded with stock/appropriate stuff. But, if it’s for you to have and enjoy,‘it’s entirely up to you. I have a Jem 77FP that the prior owner put a different (black) pickup in the bridge position, and I couldn’t care less. It’s close enough to what I want. But if someone took a 77FP and put an evertune on it, I’d have zero interest in it, because I like trems, not evertunes. But, I suspect someone would dig it.

*though, for both the person putting an evertune on a 77fp, and the person buying it, say hi to Hitler for us all, cuz you’re definitely going to hell.

 

[_MonSTeR_]

I agree pretty much with what Hollowway said, for the true vintage" guitars, those guys will accept you changing the strings since the Strat was made in 1954, but that's about it! Please don't have replaced the tuners or had it refretted, whether it needed it or not.

For something more in my ballpark, like an 80s or early 90s Ibanez like a JEM77FP, I'm looking to have any mods be effectively fully reversible and/or to be able to be made to "look" correct.

So swapping out the faded pink PAF Pros for black pickups is absolutely fine because I actually reeeeeally dislike the fading that happens on FP pickups. and I'd probably drop a new set in there myself anyway!... changing the original pickups out for EMGs would, on its own be pretty cool, but from a "collectible" standpoint is a bit annoying... but understandable and acceptable. As long as the battery goes in the JEM's normal control cavity! Routing a hole for a 9V battery box doesn't mean that I'm not going to buy the guitar, but that I'm going to have to change my mindset about what I'm buying and pay accordingly, even though it's hidden on the back. I'm also stupidly fussy about the control knobs, I like an Ibanez to have the original white controls that are painted, and not the cheaper coloured moulded plastic ones!

Putting an extra volume control or whatever on the front of the guitar, drilling through the finish on the front, then it goes from being a collectible to a previously collectible guitar and I'm only going to lowball an offer there.

Change the Edge for a Gotoh and I'll be asking if the original trem is available, or will the guy knock £250 off the because I need to buy one and change things back.

An Evertune equipped floral JEM, I would probably buy, but only as a "rescue" to take it home where I know it will be safe from any more harm and it will be loved

 

[SalsaWood]

Personally I don't mind mods in general, but they can be polarizing individually. For this reason original configurations in almost all cases fetch more fair price, which means I'm not paying more since even within the "captive" market they are comparatively lower perceived value overall. Doesn't really matter how I feel about it personally when it comes to numbers, it's about the current market value and in most cases with modded guitars that will be less. It's true of many products outside of those you build from kits pretty much universally, typically the built product will cost slightly more for the work done by whatever private party that literally built it- but not necessarily manufactured it. Kit airplanes or cars are good examples of such a thing where many embellishments and gimmicks frequently add to the resale value in a relative sense, given they are tasteful or useful. Modded line produced cars and airplanes, nah. Guitars, nah.

 

[Yul Brynner]

Depends on the guitar and price. I've had a beat to shit 90s RG7421BK with an empty neck pickup cavity, just a volume pot with the other control holes empty, and a metal square jack plate with regular jack in place of the barrel jack. I was fine with it because it was like 170$ and I just played the shit out of it with no remorse.

Otoh I was shopping for RG570EXs from around the turn of the century and most of them were beaten and abused and modded and asking crazy shit like 1200 euros. I wanted a blue one but the guy was selling it for 1200 with big chips in the paint. Badly corroded hardware. A white SD pickup in the bridge and some other black pickup in the neck. No tremolo bar. Missing trem cavity cover. No way I was paying for that.

 

[Moongrum]

feels like defeating the purpose of selling a rare guitar.

I'm not a collector, but I agree with your sentiment, particularly for rare guitars. I feel like guitars that people end up modding a lot, they should've just bought a different guitar that was more aligned to the features they wanted. But I also understand that guitar players are incredibly fickle, and NO! My guitar has to have this neck carve! With this pickup set! In this finish! With these specific inlays! etc.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Eh, I can pretty much fix anything barring something absolutely crazy, so as long as the price reflects condition I'm usually not too bothered.

 

[ArtDecade]

 

[jco5055]

Thanks guys for the responses! I agree with most/all here, the ibby in question seems to be priced like it was a true original (3k+) which I think is too much to ask for all the mods

 

[Alberto7]

Yeah it's like everyone else says. Depends on how reversible the mods are. Almost everything is reversible, just depends on your skills and whether you are willing to pay/trust someone else to fix it for you, and whether the cost is worth it. Also depends on what you want the guitar for and how likely you think it is that you'll sell it in the future.

I personally love an SS refret on pretty much everything, so if it is for myself I'd love it. Swapping an Edge for a Gotoh... eh, like someone else said, either give me the Edge if you have it, or I will offer you a price where I'd have enough leftover to cover the cost of a new Edge (and they don't tend to be cheap)

 

[Yul Brynner]

Yeah the OG Edge and LoPro are a huge part of the reason for buying Ibanez in the first place. If I came across a 7620 with a FR or Gotoh 1996 or whatever, I would definitely be asking about the original trem or knocking the price down to cover buying another.

 

[wheresthefbomb]

So this is "too much" because they covered up to Dokken sticker? Also did anyone else notice the very sneaky and out of place tool sticker?

 

[lost_horizon]

So this is "too much" because they covered up to Dokken sticker? Also did anyone else notice the very sneaky and out of place tool sticker?

That was actually Dokking, a power metal band before Dokken.

Lead guitarist was Jerry Hang

 

[jaxadam]

Hi guys,

For those that seek out specific, rare models: maybe stuff like various ESPs that are either now discontinued or certain years are coveted, original Ibby Universes, “golden era” bc rich etc, how much modification can be done before you would not consider buying?

I was looking at a rare ibanez, and one listing had an SS refret, pickup replacement, new pots, and a GOTOH 1996T instead of an Edge. Idk, to me anything more than repairing cosmetic damage and maybe the SS refret kind of feels like defeating the purpose of selling a rare guitar.

What say you?

I would be good with all of this except the trem.

 

[lost_horizon]

Hi guys,

For those that seek out specific, rare models: maybe stuff like various ESPs that are either now discontinued or certain years are coveted, original Ibby Universes, “golden era” bc rich etc, how much modification can be done before you would not consider buying?

I was looking at a rare ibanez, and one listing had an SS refret, pickup replacement, new pots, and a GOTOH 1996T instead of an Edge. Idk, to me anything more than repairing cosmetic damage and maybe the SS refret kind of feels like defeating the purpose of selling a rare guitar.

What say you?

Depends what it is... if it is rare and very little videos or reviews exist I want it as stock as possible, warts and all, bad pots, OEM pickups etc.

If its for my collection it is more about performance so I will upgrade it slightly anyway, has to be reversible.

My guitars usually have:
-some kind of nut compensation
-trem upgrades
-trem stabiliser
-superswitch
-CTS pots/solderless electronics
-new tuners

Most people won't reverse those mods or I can pull them off and return to stock. Some guitars i have a second trem to put back on.

On the refret question I just made a strat neck with gibson frets on it at a 12 inch radius, looks exactly like a strat neck but plays different. I suspect sometimes people change the radius when refretting with SS so that is another factor.

Just because it has SS frets doesn't mean its a good job. Someone like me could have done it LOL

 

[ZXIIIT]

Depending on the condition of the Edge tremolo, replacing it was probably for the better.

I passed on this Fire Spark Blue K-7 because...you'll see.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Yeah the OG Edge and LoPro are a huge part of the reason for buying Ibanez in the first place. If I came across a 7620 with a FR or Gotoh 1996 or whatever, I would definitely be asking about the original trem or knocking the price down to cover buying another.

I agree that if an Edge has been replaced (i.e. downgraded) then the asking price needs to be lowered. However, I wouldn't be complaining about an RG7420 with a high-end FR / Gotoh instead of the stock Lo-TRS (I would be very tempted to replace it with an Edge, but at least the resale value would be higher). Equally, I won't complain about mediocre stock pickups having been replaced with something from a decent brand, even if they really aren't to my taste.

A JEM / PIA / UV with an FR / Gotoh bridge is just wrong though. Whoever removed the Edge doesn't deserve nice things.

 

[MFB]

I mean, a refret would be plausible in the lifetime that you own the guitar, so I won't fault someone for doing one, and pickups/pots are easily swapped back for something else unless they fundamentally changed it a la switching it to pickup rings vs. direct mount; the biggest one that would miff me is swapping out the bridge, that's definitely the most costly and time consuming of the changes, especially on something that would be a lateral move like from an Edge to a 1996T.

 

[Drew]

I think that if you're focused on collectability, and that collectability isn't tied to a former owner (i.e - "modded by David Gilmour!"), then pretty much anything that isn't reversible is going to be an impact.

Like, a pickup swap wouldn't be a dealbreaker, provided it involved no routing or anything, and the original pickups were included in the case or something. Ditto with new knobs, or even a new trem, if you could just return the originals on it to return it to stock.

Something like a refret, on an older guitar, is probably unavoidable - I don't know the top end of the "vintage" market nearly well enough to know if a 1954 Strat with original, good condition frets would bear a premium to a comparable-condition 1954 Strat with a flawless refret. Honestly, the whole "collectability" this is so alien to me that I'd kinda rather not know. But I think something like a refret on a guitar old enough that it's probably been played enough to need one isn't really a huge deal, if the work was well done - I doubt anyone gets bent out of shape if their '54 Strat didn't ship with the factory strings, and frets are kind of a consumable with a much longer useful life.

But, I'm squarely in the "guitars are tools" camp. I probably wouldn't be interested in a '54 strat to begin with - vintage radius, 21 frets, 6-point trem, etc, I'd rather a modern spec 22 fret 2-point Strat, and it woud have to be a damned spectacular sounding guitar for me to be interested. And if it was, I'd almost certainly be having that fretboard redadiused to something larger than 7.5" and throwing jumbos on it, and pissing off a whole bunch of vintage spec snobs.

 

[Fenriswolf]

But, I'm squarely in the "guitars are tools" camp. I probably wouldn't be interested in a '54 strat to begin with - vintage radius, 21 frets, 6-point trem, etc, I'd rather a modern spec 22 fret 2-point Strat, and it woud have to be a damned spectacular sounding guitar for me to be interested. And if it was, I'd almost certainly be having that fretboard redadiused to something larger than 7.5" and throwing jumbos on it, and pissing off a whole bunch of vintage spec snobs.

Ya, I'm kinda the same way, but I like more vintage feeling guitars. I have an '83 Gibson Spirit that has a sticker covering a single coil route and some plugged holes from extra switches. On one hand, a common guitar like a Les Paul or an RG being modded like that, might be a red flag, but a not popular guitar, for it to be played and modded like it has, that's probably a kickass guitar. And while it needs a refret and looks like it was wired by Ray Charles, it's one of the best playing guitars I own.