Gibson files against Dimarzio for PAF and double cream

[HoneyNut]

I don't understand what took them this long if they think this is legitimate.

I'm not from there, but does this mean any design, let's say the form factor of Boss Pedals go through the process of application and then approval for exclusivity? I suppose it cannot be generalized for every product, but I understand the issue it is trying to address.

I'm not sure if any denim company had similar struggles where it tries to claim exclusivity, but everyone else was making it anyways. Wondering if Levi's ever went through this.

Gibson files to cancel DiMarzio’s PAF and Double Cream pickup trademarks

The brand is arguing that the marks have become generic after years of use across the industry.

guitar.com

 

[BenjaminW]

This is ridiculous. Why can’t Gibson just say double white or something like that or all white? As for PAFs, I’m surprised DiMarzio owns the trademark.

Play authentic I guess.

 

[Crungy]

I was just about to post this! This part of the article got my attention:

The “PAF” mark is “deceptively misdirective”, in that, because the guitar industry associates the “patent applied for”/PAF pickups with Gibson, DiMarzio’s trademark is deceiving buyers into thinking Gibson has sanctioned its products in some way.

I don't agree that buyers are being deceived when for the last 45 years PAF style pickups have been available from numerous sources and Gibson didn't do shit about it.

Gibson really pisses me off lol

 

[Matt08642]

I was just about to post this! This part of the article got my attention:

The “PAF” mark is “deceptively misdirective”, in that, because the guitar industry associates the “patent applied for”/PAF pickups with Gibson, DiMarzio’s trademark is deceiving buyers into thinking Gibson has sanctioned its products in some way.

I don't agree that buyers are being deceived when for the last 45 years PAF style pickups have been available from numerous sources and Gibson didn't do shit about it.

Gibson really pisses me off lol

I was just going to bring up this specific point All those DiMarzios I bought expecting to PLAY AUTHENTIC but then they end up not being Gibson branded! I was bamboozled!! I saw PAF on the box and just assumed they were lEgAlLy sAnCtiOnEd Gibson products!

 

[Choop]

This is ridiculous. Why can’t Gibson just say double white or something like that or all white? As for PAFs, I’m surprised DiMarzio owns the trademark.

Play authentic I guess.

Didn't know about the PAF name trademark, but DiMarzio owns the trademark on double cream bobbins specifically lol, as weird as that is.

 

[Carrion Rocket]

 

[Loydthebartender]

They might have a case here except for the

• Cream is a common colour for guitar plastics (pickguards, switch tips etc). Guitarists modifying an instrument will want all of their guitar’s plastics – including both humbucker bobbins – to match. Therefore, the design for the “double cream” pickup is “functional”, and therefore not trademarkable

By default though: fuck Gibson, on GP fuck them. Hope they lose badly and have to pay Larry DiMarzios lawyer fees. Nothing but contempt for their copyright trolling

 

[ElysianGuitars]

This is ridiculous. Why can’t Gibson just say double white or something like that or all white? As for PAFs, I’m surprised DiMarzio owns the trademark.

Play authentic I guess.

This is absolutely not ridiculous. Dimarzio has gone after pickup makers for decades for the double cream trademark, they're very aggressive in defending it, even though it is absolutely generic and doesn't have an actual defined color in the trademark. They shouldn't own such a generic trademark, and Gibson doing this is good for the rest of the pickup industry.

This is the best news I've seen in a while. The double cream trademark should be canceled, it's absolutely generic and not something most people actually know Dimarzio for. I get asked to make double cream pickups regularly.

Dimarzio recently tried to expand their double cream trademark to the X2N style pickup, but do it in such a way it would apply to any number of strings for any style of humbucker, and got shot down because it was generic, their own cream color didn't always match, and their brand wasn't known for double cream.

 

[Demiurge]

I mean, I know this is the work of Gibson- they who close orphanages for fun and boil Christian babies under the full moon- but it is kind of weird that Dimarzio owns "PAF". It's a colloquialism, it's a misnomer, and every pickup company should be allowed to confuse everyone equally with its continued use.

 

[ElysianGuitars]

Trademark Status & Document Retrieval

This is their last attempt to trademark double cream, the documentation is pretty interesting, basically lays out how to cancel the original double cream mark.

 

[John]

Play authentic I guess.

Word on the street is: if you blurt 'authentic' three times in a row (ie- in front of a mirror), Mark Agnesi will magically appear and sue you on Gibson's behalf.

 

[Crungy]

This is absolutely not ridiculous. Dimarzio has gone after pickup makers for decades for the double cream trademark, they're very aggressive in defending it, even though it is absolutely generic and doesn't have an actual defined color in the trademark. They shouldn't own such a generic trademark, and Gibson doing this is good for the rest of the pickup industry.

This is the best news I've seen in a while. The double cream trademark should be canceled, it's absolutely generic and not something most people actually know Dimarzio for. I get asked to make double cream pickups regularly.

Dimarzio recently tried to expand their double cream trademark to the X2N style pickup, but do it in such a way it would apply to any number of strings for any style of humbucker, and got shot down because it was generic, their own cream color didn't always match, and their brand wasn't known for double cream.

I didn't know Dimarzio was aggressive about that kind of stuff too, that's lame. I agree with you on the double cream thing, it's such a generic thing and you can get it everywhere.

 

[StevenC]

Honestly, those probably are two trademarks that should be cancelled if anyone is honest about the situation. PAF is in reference to Gibson pickups and all of Dimarzio's advertising is blatant about that and what it stands for, so why shouldn't Gibson be able to use the name the musicians use for their pickups?

I really don't see how double cream protects the consumer either. Again, the idea is that the original pickups used white plastic bobbins that aged, so Dimarzio copied this.

But glad we're dunking on Gibson for a pro-consumer move here.

 

[tedtan]

Dimarzio should never have been granted a trademark for double cream pickups when Gibson had been making them for a decade or two prior to Dimarzio ever existing.

And PAF is a generic term in this context* in that it refers to a type of pickup rather than a specific brand or model, so this shouldn’t be a trademark, either.



* That is unless you’re referring to actual 1956/1957 through 1962 Gibson humbuckers marked “patent applied for”, in which case they’re Gibsons anyway.

 

[technomancer]

The DiMarzio trademark is bullshit and should be overturned.

See Elysian's post above.

As for PAF this has passed into common usage so that ship has sailed IMHO

 

[ElysianGuitars]

I don't think Dimarzio really defends the PAF trademark, considering virtually everyone uses it, but it doesn't sound like Gibson is looking to own that for themselves either, so whatever.

 

[vibrantgermancities]

This is absolutely not ridiculous. Dimarzio has gone after pickup makers for decades for the double cream trademark, they're very aggressive in defending it, even though it is absolutely generic and doesn't have an actual defined color in the trademark. They shouldn't own such a generic trademark, and Gibson doing this is good for the rest of the pickup industry.

This is the best news I've seen in a while. The double cream trademark should be canceled, it's absolutely generic and not something most people actually know Dimarzio for. I get asked to make double cream pickups regularly.

Dimarzio recently tried to expand their double cream trademark to the X2N style pickup, but do it in such a way it would apply to any number of strings for any style of humbucker, and got shot down because it was generic, their own cream color didn't always match, and their brand wasn't known for double cream.

Dimarzio had something to do with Kinman being hard to get hold of, I think?! Not sure of the specifics, but this definitely feels like a case where everyone is as bad as each other.

That said, I hope nothing comes of it because you just know the prices of used Dimarzios will skyrocket as every idiot slaps ‘PRE-LAWSUIT’ all over their adverts.

 

[ElysianGuitars]

If anyone wants to read the Gibson filing:

https://tsdr.uspto.gov/caseviewer/pdf?caseId=73150505&docIndex=2&searchprefix=sn#docIndex=2

Just as I said above, they're using Dimarzio's failed attempt to expand the double cream trademark as a framework for canceling the original mark, and bolstering it with tons of other evidence and history. They say multiple times in the filing that the mark is generic, and should be canceled. It's an excellent read.

Edit: Gibson even used some images directly from the trademark office's denial of the most recent mark.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

...Okay so are we just shitting on Gibson just to shit on Gibson in here? This is actually a good thing tbh?
I mean it's ironic that it's Gibson of all brands doing it, but why is it *bad* they're trying to make it so all pickup manufacturers can make double-cream pickups?

 

[spudmunkey]

I wonder if Carvin/Kiesel has some sort of legal license or some sort of other agreement because they've been offering "double cream" for a few decades.